Scott Simpson - Part 1 (The Early Years)

Welcome to another edition of FORE the Good of the Game and Bruce Devlin, can you believe it's interview number 76?

I know and what an interview we have today, too.

Yeah, I mean, we had to go. We had to go a long way to find this fella and track him down.

I know I know

The other cool part about having done this many interviews is we're starting to get some of our guests that actually know what the podcast is. And have listened to some episodes. That's pretty cool.

And this particular one does he he listens to our podcast when he walks his dogs. And he's a 16-time winner. Seven of them on the PGA Tour. He was traveled a lot to Japan and back. And then in 1987, a lot of people will remember when he won the U.S. Open. And what a pleasure it is to have Scott Simpson with us today. Beautiful. Thank you, sir, for joining us.

Well, it's gonna be great to be here. Thanks, Bruce. Thanks, Mike. I do enjoy listening to your podcast quite a bit. It's a lot of the people that I grew up watching and then playing with and man it's, it's just a it's a fun thing. Thanks for doing it.

Thank you. Yeah, well, we've had a lot of fun with it. I thought Mr. Gonzalez was was the one that come up with the idea when he first threw it at me. I thought he was stupid. But I ended up I ended up saying, Okay, let's take a shot at it. And boy, it's been a it's been a great ride. And as of today, we are with the USGA forever.

Well, I'm glad he talked you into it, Bruce.

Yeah, we're, we're, and we look forward to talking to you today. Scott, you know, you got a lot of things to talk about. You've had a great career. And I know, you're the head coach, coach of the boys at the University of Hawaii. Used to be used to be with the girls earlier, but now with the boys and they're lucky to have you. That's all I can say.

Well, you'd have to ask them about that. I don't know.

We'll get to your we'll get to your coaching career, I'm sure much deeper into our interview. But as you know, having listened to a few of these, Scott, we like to go back to the very beginning. And it's so it's always fun and enjoyable for Bruce and I to really come to learn how you how you grew up. You know what other sports you might have played how you came to the game. So take us a little bit about growing up in God's country, San Diego, California.

I know I feel lucky. My dad and my mom. My mom was from Milwaukee, my dad's from Chicago. And he got drafted during the Korean War into the Marines and sent all the way out to San Diego. He was upset. How can I have to be sent so far away from home and well, he went out here for a couple years and never went back. He started playing golf and fell in love with golf. And my dad actually became a really good player qualified for the U.S. AM. I remember he came back from the U.S. AM and said, Yeah, I'm hitting it out there between these bunkers and this kid from Stanford, Tom Watson is flying these bunkers. How am I gonna compete with that? And, yeah, he, he was just a really good player. And he was a school teacher, actually, elementary school teacher, he majored in math, and I don't know how he got into teaching, but I think he loved having the summers off, I think was his favorite part of the job. And he could play golf. And so when I was 10, and my brother was nine, we actually asked our dad if we could start playing golf and fortunately, in San Diego, they had just a fantastic junior golf program. And I just fell in love with the game. Just love playing the tournaments, love playing golf, and we were really fortunate to that. My dad joined a course semi public course called Stardust and hit a bunch of gamblers. Brusa know these guys, a lot of the pros Victor Regalado, Cesar Cenudo, Lon Hinkle, all the San Diego guys would come down and try to make a little cash and but it was great because they had three nines. So two of the nines were like the course. And the other nine was for like everyone else to go play and usually the juniors could get out and play and it was it was just great. So just kind of just love playing golf, love competing love playing with friends and kind of got better and better as I went on.

Stardust was out in the valley, wasn't it?

Yeah, yeah. Do you remember? Oh, you might have even played Uh oh, I

played there too.

You know what? had the San Diego Open before they moved to Torrey Pines was a Stardust. I remember getting a tee from Al Geiberger that had Skippy peanut butter on it

I know Skippy came up in our in our interview with with Al whether the tees came up Bruce I don't remember but

yeah, he he always had teeth with the Skippy peanut. Skippy, right? Yeah.

That's great. Yeah. Tell us about your first sticks. When did you get them? What kind? Where are they?

Well, you know, my dad was a school teacher. So he went all out and I got we got our first clubs and I got the even once and Dave got the odd ones. I don't know probably like four or five Wired's and I would putter and ready to go. I do remember. So we joined. We started playing. My dad gave us one lesson and my dad was a good player. But as a teacher, he, he believed you learn kind of on your own, and learn by watching and watch the great players. So I was tall. I had a big upright swing. My brother was short, and he swung like Ben Hogan. And so we were totally different. But I remember his first lesson, he gave us one lesson. Okay? When you're going to play with me play fast. I'm not waiting. I'm not waiting around for a bunch of kids dawdling around that here. So loving play, Matt.

Good for him.

Yeah, we just played in my first tournament Junior Golf. I was 10. And I tied my brother for fifth place. And we had a playoff and I ended up beating. Not that did he ever

beat you?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, he did. He made it. Yeah, he ended up he was in became a really good Junior he shot 16 under in our city Junior and one by like eight shots. And yeah, he'll he'll, he'll remind me of that now and then. And then.

Well, I mentioned to you before, Scott, that you and I are pretty much the same vintage. I think I'm six weeks older than you actually. And so we've had a lot of the same life experiences and would have watched the same kind of golf and seeing the same kind of golf magazine. So your influences must have been my influences in terms of what we were able to see and learn from his kids.

Yep. My heroes were probably especially when I was a kid, because I was tall, you know, six feet six one and skinny and so I loved Well, I was I was a Nicklaus guy. You know, you're back then you were a Nicklaus or Palmer.

I was a Palmer guy.

Yeah, I was Nicklaus. And I love this upgrade swaying left out we bombed it. And then I like Johnny Miller and then Weiskopf.

And unfortunate part about all those names is I had to play against the whole damn lot of them. No. No, throw Trevino in there are too and Watson. I know. To me, that was so good. What a group of guys huh?

I know. It's amazing. They're a great group of guys. And how many great players have been in Yeah, so that I get to watch them growing up. I used to have pictures in my back we didn't have video back then. I didn't have you to watch so I had pictures up on my wall that Golf Digest, you know, the stop action stuff. And I'd copy that I'd learned swinging into a mirror, you know, in the outside and then I had a net in my backyard. I'd hit balls and just always just loved it. Just trying to get better and love competing. And it was fun. Just let it was fun.

You're old enough to have had your own shag bag?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, well, unfortunately, well, probably fortunately, it started as it had been the worst driving range I'd probably ever been on I mean mass where you can break your wrist and golf balls. It flew every which direction and it was horrible. And so and we didn't have any money, so I never hit balls on the range. I mean, never. And so we had a little nine hole place a little nine hole par three, so we could go out in the par three. Usually no one was there and just hit irons and I got really good at hitting. You're only allowed to hit two balls. Well, I couldn't imagine that so I'm hitting 567 balls and then have I really get it looking over my shoulder and spotting the marshal coming out. And yeah, sometimes I hit seven or eight balls down this way and then I'd say oh shoot and then I'd hit a couple of the other way and and walk the other way. Go pick those up later and it was I got kicked off a couple times for too much practicing. And then they went I went to USC but I got to go back and see see it's not bad to let those kids practice Yeah, but it was good fun. It was Gosh a great place to grow up and I hit balls. And I love practicing on the course too, because you hit so many different kinds of shots, we would have a wind come in usually every afternoon off the ocean few miles away. And so yeah, you get used to hitting in different winds and different shots and better than just standing on a range, I think.

So in addition to being a Nicklaus guy, understand Byron Nelson was pretty important guy to you, as well.

Well, the more I started learning, studying about golf, and I read, I was basically a self taught player, my dad would give us hints once in a while, being a good player, the little tips, but really, nothing major, you know, not like, you know, get the club in this position. And, you know, make sure your, your deltoids firing, and then you start down and you're internally rotating, we didn't have all that stuff. So, you know, I just tried to swing the club and then tried to watch the best players and but I read a lot of books. And so Byron being, you know, about the same height and size I was, I thought, oh, geez, like, I should copy him, copy him. So and I love the way he used his legs, you know, the leg drive, and I love the way you know, that left hand would leave through the shot and read his books. And so Byron was kind of like a hero. Growing up also, as far as this is swaying and everything. Then Then, of course, later on, actually got to meet him and know him, and then he became even more of a hero.

Yeah, yeah.

So did you play other sports as a kid?

You know, just for fun? In some ways, I wish my dad would sign me up for you know, I haven't ever baseball or Pop Warner or something. But they never did. And I never really probably asked, but I mean, just for fun. I mean, I shoot baskets and played a lot of handball actually at school and things like that, but nothing organized. Just golf. And, and that was fine. I mean, I love golf.

Golf in high school. Oh, yeah, I

played golf in high school. And yeah, we ended up winning our division and all that stuff. And interesting enough. Yeah, our school was good. And then about 18 years later, Chris Riley came along and played at the same school. And, and now he's coaching to these coaches at the University of San Diego. So it's fun to just get to hang out with a lot of the same guys. Yeah, he's a cool, cool dude, too.

So, tell us a little bit of how your game developed. And I mean, when did you what point is you were a kid, did you say, um, I may, I may try to play this in college. I may try to do something with this. Well, my

dream was to go to college and, and I really was hoping to do that. And then I ended up winning. I think I was 15 when the state junior, and then, you know, when I was 15, I qualified for the U.S. Junior. And one of the favorite stories I love telling my kids is I made the match play. And I'm walking out there with my friend Joe Flood from San Diego and we walked down to the range and I see this one guy at the end of the range with a goofiest looking swing I've ever seen. I said to Joe, Look at that swing. guess somebody's gonna get to play that guy. Well, it was me after my five and three beat down. I never made fun of anyone swing again. That's for sure. Jim, you're

gonna tell us who it was. No, I

can't remember who it was. But I just remember thinking oh good I get to play that guy and he just tested me so there's more than one way to play good at this game. That's

isn't that the truth? Yeah,

we heard the same thing from Justin Leonard at the U.S. Amateur earlier this week he talked about and you might remember the name Bruce because it was a more well known name was a fine older amateur player relative to Justin same thing and never want to copy that swing but boy he was pretty good with it.

There's a lot of guys like that then But then I ended up coming second in the U.S. Junior when I was 16 and semi final the 17 and end up getting back then the recruiting was so different there wasn't really much recruiting. I mean I could have gone to Houston, probably San Diego State but then I I was really hoping I wrote a letter and then got back from USC, Stan Wood and Craig Stadler was already there Yeah, he's a big star and won the U.S. Amateur second year in college and and I played with Craig actually in high school he is two years older and yeah, I just I thought USC also would be the best school if I was gonna live in Southern California to be get a degree from because I hate you know, I was thinking I always that, you know, my dream was to maybe be a pro one day, but most guys don't make it. And I better have I better have a degree, I better get a job to fall back. Because, you know, the odds of me making it are not good. And so I thought SC would be great. And then fortunately, I got a scholarship because I couldn't afford it and ended up going to USC and, and rooming with the walrus of all things. That was pretty funny. I went up there as a freshman, and I was so shy. And and coach would goes, he got us for a football game and I haven't even been to USC yet. And Craig's there and so Coach goes to Craig, the dorms are full. So Craig, Scott's gonna be living with you. Craig's like, what is? No, I don't want freshmen with me. Is that what do you want some freshmen?

Oh, geez.

But the coach document knew it. So Craig was stuck with a freshman.

Well, what a great, what a great golf tradition there. Of course, Stan Woods come up on our podcast before. And I'm thinking, I'm sure you remember. You remember the story of how Craig got his nickname? I'm guessing it would have been the Walker Cup in 75. With Jerry Pate. I want to say they were in Scotland, maybe at the Old Course. soaking rain. He comes in all soaking wet and Jerry Pate. Hangs that "Walrus" label on him.

You know what? I don't think I ever asked him how he got his nickname. That sounds like Jerry Pate though.

Yeah, doesn't it?

And so I think we heard it from Jerry first. And then of course, we had to talk to Craig about and he validated it. That's exactly how it happened. He is actually a

it's a perfect nickname. And he ended up making. I mean, he's done well with it, actually. I mean, I think he kind of embraced it after a while because the walrus close relative? Everything. Yeah, it's been fun. He's a fun guy, guys.

We're following in the footsteps of John Jacobs and Al Geiberger, Dave Stockton. So tell us a little bit about your college career playing with Stadler and some of the other fellas.

It was great. Yeah, we never won the NCAA. But we were always right up there. One of the top teams and we had Mark Pfiel for a year. And good play. Yeah, we had a lot of other good players that never ended up making it on tour. But yeah, good teams then. It was just it was fun. And yeah, I played actually I remember a freshman I played really good. Right off the bat. I was number one of the team. And by the end of the year, I was in a playoff to make it for the last man to the NCAA. So my game kind of went down the toilet. Probably because I was playing too much. Pinball with Stadler just too much goofing around. He, I mean, I ended up getting my degree. And Craig, I think it was his third or fourth year it got Scott, I finally figured out what I like he was he would do enough to stay eligible. I'll give him that much. And we were so different. He always knew he was gonna be a pro golfer. So it wasn't, there wasn't a doubt. And so he said he stayed eligible. He says, Thanks for you that what I like I like geography. So well then. Can you major it? No, they don't have any for a major but I'll just take every elective I guess. Geography and they

already good in those NCR, you did pretty good in those NCAA. So you were medalists there in 76. In championship of course. New Mexico University in New Mexico and then again in 77. You were medalist again at Seven Oaks Golf Club New York. So I know as a teammate, neither one was You sure played pretty good. And I

did play pretty good. The first one especially I are good. And they they aren't good. 76 was was certainly a remember going to New Mexico and we hit they had the East-West matches there. And I mean, I was playing pretty good. But I remember just going there and I don't know what clicked it actually, I got a putting lesson from Stan Wood. He told me Scott, you've got to make sure you keep accelerating through the putt. And so I kept going through the puck and like Dave Stockton talks about left hand going into the hole and I must have been quitting on or something but we had these east west matches and so I had to I got to play Curtis Strange and Curtis was the NCAA champ as a freshman he's first team All-American Curtis was so good in college and he hit it long, too long and he ended up changing his swing getting really consistent and straight as a pro. But in college he had a long man he was good then I'd been on like five and for something and just played so good. Like I was just shocking myself on how good in a way. And then because our team was one of the top teams we played in the afternoon everyone in the other bottom teams played in the morning. Well, every afternoon the wind came up blowing like 20 miles an hour. And I was in the afternoon I was the only guy in the afternoon probably in the top 10. And wow, I just played so good. I was just playing so good. And then I was still right, kind of near the lead and I remember I shot for under the back nine and made like a 20 footer on the last hole to win. And I beat a guy named Barton Goodwin and because these guys these guys were the guys that had not really played that great but they're on the other side of the draw. And Barton, Barton you know, obviously played really good but Jeff Sanders with third all the big names kind of dropped off, but it was just like, I played so good. And then the following year. It was just really hard. It was cold, tough, and I think I won it either even or won under and just kind of played steady the whole way. Man. Yeah, big thrill to win that thing twice. It was the I look back on it. I so now I'm a college coach. And I look, I watch these guys play. So how in the world I ever win that thing. These cases great year for you on the Porter Cup of Niagara Falls. You were the number one ranked amateur in the United States. I mean, that's, that's pretty strong. I don't know if they had the I guess I was but I don't remember that stuff. I don't remember the rankings as big a deal back then. But yeah, I never thought it was that good. But I guess I was pretty good. Ben. Yeah,

you Bruce. You think about the guys that would have been on that same list back in that era. That's that's a strong plan. Yeah.

Yeah. Then in in in 77. You make the Walker Cup team right at Shinnecock Hills used throughout a pretty good team there. Yeah, we Simpson, Hallberg, Ridley Sigel, Heafner. Pretty good, strong team.

Yeah, I think we went pretty good too. And the great thing about the Walker Cup, though, was that I had just gotten married. So I had just gotten married right out of college. The, the girl I married, who I'm still married to Cheryl met her in high school. And funny story there is I saw her at the junior world. And I met and she was actually meeting a group from Hawaii. Her boyfriend was a golfer from Hawaii and her dad had just retired from the Navy. And they had retired in San Diego and most of her most of her upbringing been in Hawaii. So she was in San Diego meeting, you know, her friends and I'm looking over there going, Wow, that's a cute girl over there. She's looking over and, and then I see her again. It was at the zoo for a little Junior World thing. And then sure enough, she said my high school. But I told you I'm too too shy. I'm not gonna go talk to a girl. And so but she, she talks to her friends and goes, Hey, who's that guy over there? And they go, Oh, Scott Simpson. He's a golfer. You don't you don't need to talk to him. He doesn't talk to anybody. So she eventually the action fortunately asked me after the Sadie Hawkins dance then one thing led to another and been together ever since. And so we got married and like I said, I didn't have any money. I'm just out of college. But the we timed it so that the walker cup was our honeymoon right there in New York. And thank you USGA for paying for my honeymoon. Never forget, hey,

Cheryl had Cheryl had a pretty good eye. So Bruce, look at this Walker Cup record course. On the on the GB&I side. Back in 1977, you had a young man named Sandy Lyle on that opposing team among others. And so let's come out of the box on Friday morning. You've got Simpson/Miller against Davies/Kelly. Quick little five and four from the Simpson side. You go to the afternoon play some singles and I'll tell you what the Scots call this. Scott. Scott Simpson over Gordon Murray seven and six. You know what they call it in Scotland? know they call that a dog license. You put a dog license on him. That's how much a dog license costs seven pounds six P or something. You know, they call that a dog license.

I'm glad I didn't know that. Yeah,

And then the second day we come out in the morning was a little foursomes match the old Miller/Simpson team begin to up on McAvoy/Davies. And so here are 3-0 why in the world did they sit you down in the afternoon?

I don't know this right? Maybe they do. Maybe they do as my honey man. You gotta be tired here eventually.

Some slack so how was that experience? So what do you remember about that week of being on your honeymoon?

It was just great. I mean everything about it just be me kind of like the Ryder Cup being able to represent your country is just a special thrill and yeah, Lindy Miller, great, great player. Man. He was out of Texas. He was probably one of the best players definitely in college and hit a little little hook out there with every shot and up and down it from everywhere so

He can still hit it too by the way

does he? I know what a great guy

Oh yeah, he's he's still a good player.

Yeah, always was and then always surprised me he didn't make an on tour I think he's putting there was so good in college just kind of wasn't as good when he turned pro or something. But yeah, great guy head now. It was just fun. It's just fun. Just love playing and and Shinnecock to is definitely one of my favorite courses I've ever played. Just love Shinnecock and being able to play out there, too.

So as you headed out there, you already knew what you were going to do. Right? I mean, you weren't going to be a geography teacher like Stadler? I mean, you probably had your mind set, right? Just waiting for the Walker Cup to get through. And then you were going to do what you were going to do professionally?

Yes. Yeah, I was gonna Well, actually, I was gonna go back, I took back then Golf was only in the spring. So I would take one less class in the spring and take try to take most of the hard classes in the fall. So I was one, one semester short. And so I went back to USC and got my degree. And yeah, but I was gonna I was gonna turn pro and definitely give it a shot. Stan would help me get sponsors. I think I heard Geiberger that Stan helped Geiberger get sponsors. Then another great thing about Stan Wood. And because I didn't have any money to start with. So to get a group of guys to sponsor me for three years, and in my mind, I was gonna give it my best for three years. And if I didn't make it Fine, I'll go back, get a job and, and play for fun. And if I did make it great, you know, my dream was to, I just love playing golf so much that I thought what could be better than to play golf every day. So yeah, gave it a shot. And I did get my degree, tried the tour school. The first time it made it to the finals, but then ended up making a 12 on a hole. I got really lucky. I hooked it down near water and I'm standing side hill is Pinehurst for around a big water thing. So I'm trying to hit it out to the right, but I kept hooking it into the water. Drop it again, hook in the water. Jeez. So I ended up missing school. And then the second time though, we had few schools twice a year then to try to get on tour. Second time was in New Mexico, where I'd won the NCAA and played as good as that probably never played. And I thought, well, if I'm ever going to make it, it's going to be here. So I went there, playing pretty good. And, you know, finals, made it all the way through. And I'm kind of right on the edge go into the last day and I shoot at the last day. And I remember sitting under a tree with Cheryl basically crying. Take it I'll never make it as a pro. I'll never make it and because you just blew it, I blew it. And so, you know, those are the things were either quit or you dust yourself off and try it again. You know and think about Hogan going broke all those times. Yeah, you know, you just keep trying then. So fortunately, the third time down and really hard course in Huntsville. I made it and and then the rest is history. I get to get to play on the PGA Tour. What a thrill. Yeah, what

a thrill. Even for a guy like Jack Nicklaus with his record, didn't he say that 90% of golf is losing.

And that's the truth, isn't it? Yep. Yeah.

So you remember the moment? I mean, the exact moment when you said Alright, I'm going to try this professionally.

No, no, I don't remember the moment because it was always a dream. I think. First the dream was to be able to play college golf and then The dream was always to be a pro. And that was one of the things about winning the NCAA is I got the trophy, and I'm looking down all the names on that trophy thinking, wow, almost every one of these guys made it to the tour. I think I got a shot. I think maybe maybe this is me, I really can't make it out there. And yeah, so it was a dream. i Yeah. And I never took it for granted, I guess I was always a little different than Craig. Well, I was a better student. My mom and dad were teachers. I had, I had to do pretty good in the classroom. And I don't know, I never took it for granted that never had never thought, you know, oh, I'll make it as a pro even winning them to the land, never take it for granted that I would be out there. So in some ways, that probably helped me because it just made me work harder. You know, because I never, never really thought I was as good as some of these guys. I'm playing against in some ways.

Well, you know, you look at that record that you you built over the course of those two years, 76, 77 it was just a, I'm sure a series of of confidence boosting steps that sort of laid a pretty solid foundation for eventually saying, Okay, let's, let's give this a go.

Well, you would think so. But then there was also times, there are weeks or I played terrible. Yeah, I'd have these great weeks. And then weeks where cow Lee, I'm gonna play so bad for. And yeah, and so looking back, I mean, I hit it real upright swaying, it's kind of like Geiberger a little bit. And I don't know, maybe a little more timing involved, because I went to the Asian tour, when I did turn pro and I played terrible over there. And I thought, and that was after missing the first door school and I thought, gee whiz, this is I don't know, I gotta make it this. And yeah, so I went to the Asian tour, and I had this big upgrade swing, and I just, I miss about over half the cuts. And it was it was a real struggle. And fortunately, Cheryl was with me. And it was it was fun in a way but men up with a friend of mine, Bob Bymun, who had actually beat me in the U.S. Junior bobbed, it ended up making the tour. And Bob Bob Bymun was a huge Hogan fanatic. And there's a lot of Hogan fanatics who analyze not only his swing the book and everything. And so Bob said, told me So Scott, you're way too upright, you gotta get, you get, you gotta get your swing more connected, flatter, where your arms are swinging more with your body. And he said, Read this Hogan book. And I had never, I had read all these books, but I had never read Hogan's five fundamentals just because the guy's five foot eight. What Yeah, I'm not gonna swing like Ben Hogan. So I read the book, though. And I started trying to basically keep my arms connected with my body. And my swing got so much more connected. And I mean, I'm still that's what I liked about Hogan's book. He said, If you're tall, your plane is going to be upright. If you're short, your playing is going to be flatter than Correct. Yeah. I, I, that became kind of like my golfing Bible. And it is for so many players. But I just thought it was it just really helped me to have some fundamentals where, you know, because in golf, you're gonna have those peaks and valleys. But when I did have the valleys, then I had something to kind of go back to and say, okay, you know, am I am I swinging in the right sequence, and I love this idea of the sequence of the swing. And so that really helped me a lot. Not trying to swing like Hogan, but using his fundamentals in the swing, to for my swing. And, yeah, that really helped me get much more consistent. And I think that's what helped. Getting onto the tour, then, and then helping to be a little more consistent once I got on there in avoiding those, just the big peaks and valleys that I had. So yeah, my amateur career was really great. But it always seemed like I was just it almost seemed like I was just not as confident as I should be just because it did go up and down so much.

Thank you for listening to another episode of for the good of the game. Please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify. If you like what you hear, please subscribe. Spread the word. Tell your friends until we tee it up again. With the good of the game. So long, everybody