Sandra Palmer - Part 3 (The 1975 Women's U.S. Open)

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Mike Gonzalez  00:15

So your next win was in Green Gables Country Club inColorado and again we bring up the name Betty Burfeindt you got her by one

Palmer, Sandra  00:25

good. I didn't know who finished second 

Mike Gonzalez  00:31

It doesn't matter really does it?

Palmer, Sandra  00:32

That was a good course for me. Very small greens. And I grew up playing it Glen Garden in Fort Worth. That had small greens. So you know, anytime you're on the green, you pretty much have a chance at have already but that was and it was treelined that was a wonderful course.

Devlin, Bruce  00:52

And should be a couple of pretty good caddies, there to

Palmer, Sandra  00:56

two caddies. What was a good pro there

Devlin, Bruce  01:00

was a two good caddies there,  one was a guy by the name of Ben Hogan.

Palmer, Sandra  01:06

Glen Garden you mean Yeah, at Glen Garden. Okay. Yes, indeed.

Devlin, Bruce  01:12

Byron Nelson.

Palmer, Sandra  01:14

But at Green Gables. That was actually Paul Runyan was the Head Golf Professional there when I was there. Yeah, I never could quite get into you know, I mean, he probably what came out and watch me put some or chip but I never got into that kind of that method. And he was one of the best of course. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez  01:39

Later a month later you went out to California you won the Cameron Park Open at Cameron Park Country Club. This was by to over a lady that was in this most recently inducted class of the World Golf Hall of Fame that being Susie Maxwell Berning. And also Gail Toushin.

Palmer, Sandra  01:55

Gail Toushin well that to do you remember a gal named Carol Jo Skala. She played on the tour and she was a really good player. That was her. That was her home club. And for some reason she hurt she had a couple kids I can't remember their names now naughty me. But they followed me they fell in love with me and followed me the whole time but and Carol Jo, they're there rooting more for you than they are for me. So at the end that was the excitement that they were so excited and we kind of bonded you know so

Mike Gonzalez  02:35

well that finished off quite a year for you and 73 with those six victories and then Bruce a couple more than next year.

Devlin, Bruce  02:42

Yeah, two more. Kendall Lakes Golf Club in Florida where you beat Kathy Whitworth in this in the Burdines Invitational and the Cubic Corporation Classic at Stardust Country Club where you beat Kathy McMullen.

Palmer, Sandra  03:01

Well, the  Kendall Lake  that was a obviously the name speaks for itself a lot of water there. Now when I see water, I just had to put blinders on. But the the thing that I remember so much about that when was that? As I went back earlier, speaking about my being a private caddy to this man called  Max Weinstein in my that's how I took up my game. Well, he came to that tournament to watch me play.

Mike Gonzalez  03:40

Did he bet on you?

Palmer, Sandra  03:41

Well, I don't know. But I won that tournament. So that was kind of a big thrill for me to to see him and with him there. Yeah. And who had been there so that's what I remember most about it and just and the tournament at the you know, I I'm not sure that I won that. Did I win that tournament that Q insert at the Stardust?

Mike Gonzalez  04:06

Sure. Did 1974

Palmer, Sandra  04:09

I thought that the they I only one one year there.

Devlin, Bruce  04:14

Well, you know what I'm thinking different names of tournaments.

Palmer, Sandra  04:18

I'm thinking it might have been in San Diego. I'm not sure it was in I don't I feel quite sure I didn't win in only one one time in Las Vegas. But I believe that was in San Diego.

Mike Gonzalez  04:32

Well, this was yeah, sorry. This was this was at The Stardust Country Clubin California.

Palmer, Sandra  04:36

What threw me off that night. Yeah. Wouldn't it be nice Stardust? Yeah. Yes.

Mike Gonzalez  04:43

Yeah. Well, your your win against Kathy in the playoff that just to add you to her statistics of you are one of 20 losses that she had in playoffs, I mean, hard to believe that a player of her caliber would have a playoff record of eight and 20

Palmer, Sandra  05:01

Well, how many did I have? How many? How many playoffs did I have?

Devlin, Bruce  05:05

Well, do you want that badly? Want to know? Four and

Mike Gonzalez  05:09

Five out of five? You were four and five.

Palmer, Sandra  05:12

So does that mean for you one and five? You lost? Right? So I can probably talk about more of those.

Mike Gonzalez  05:19

Yeah, that puts you about average actually done it. Yeah,

Devlin, Bruce  05:25

yeah, we've kept records of playoffs, Sandra, and they did a bit higher than the boys but both both women and men are under 50%. All all of you great players. Now we're talking about not, you know, not just somebody that come along the pike, the, the great players have a losing record in playoffs. So don't feel bad.

Palmer, Sandra  05:49

Well, that's what makes you stronger, you know. And the experience to you know, you just keep learning as you go. That's what's the beauty of the game and and once you start realizing you have no control over anyone else, I think that's, that's what I said that I wish I knew, then what I know now that I would have been maybe emotionally more in control of myself.

Mike Gonzalez  06:17

So now you're coming up on 12 years or so on tour, you've you've you've been winning now for four or five years. You're coming into, you know, arguably one of your best years ever in your career 1975 What was going on in life? What was going on with your swing with your mental approach?

Palmer, Sandra  06:35

I think I just was getting my wings and starting to, you know, it's all about your confidence. But you know, you have to produce too. And I just tried to, you know, I was fit. That's when I was probably working out more and I was getting stronger. And my, my game I was just, you know, I never shot a lot of really low scores. But I just was a lot more consistent with everything. And you know that if you just can be patient with yourself, that pays off.

Mike Gonzalez  07:12

You traveled on the tour with a stationary bike for a while.

Palmer, Sandra  07:15

I did a little 10 Tori and I had a either have my caddy take it or one year, one year I had a I had a Checkered, a Checkered Cab that I bought from Kalamazoo, Michigan, one of my friends in Florida had one he had one. And I thought man, wouldn't that be great? It was burgundy. And of course, there's no telling what went on in that car, you know, when he was driving all over the country, but they would take take, he would take that. Whoever my caddy was would drive it to the spot. It was a lot of fun.

Mike Gonzalez  07:55

Well, Bruce, let's let's get into that great year of 1975. This first one of course. Who knows? In a few years, maybe it'll be a major again.

Devlin, Bruce  08:03

Yeah might be called guide Dinah Shore winner. Right

Palmer, Sandra  08:07

mission. Yes, that was. That was a big thing. For me that really started my year off Well, number one, too. I was I represented at that time landmark land, and they owned Mission Hills or they owned a lot of fabulous places. But, and I was a member there. So if you are a member of your club, you're allowed to play there. So I knew that I mean, I know that course. But even today, even though it's changed quite a bit. It's a day it was a Desmond Muirhead club. There are several holes that are so different that you can't believe it. But anyway, I knew. I knew that knew the course really well. So

Mike Gonzalez  08:57

yeah, that was first contested there. In 1972. Jane Blalock won that first tournament of course that was sponsored. I mean, Dinah Shore got involved, but Colgate-Palmolive and, and David Foster.

Palmer, Sandra  09:11

He put he put us on the map. About really David Foster Well, sure did with we traveled there was he had a group of, I don't know, maybe 16 gals and we traveled to Singapore and a lot of different countries England, we went to Australia. I don't think he took a seat and take us to Japan but I believe he took us to see I went to Hong Kong, Singapore. It was it was hard. And the tournament that he had, I'm not sure where that fits in with your. But if you were a winner of one of those tournaments at He had a tournament at Mission Hills that maybe that was in later years that he brought it to Mission Hills. And I lost to it was a match play event I lost to JoAnne Carner in that one, but, but the one in 75 I I lead from the very first round.

Mike Gonzalez  10:22

Yeah, well as you said he really put ladies golf on the map with his support his company support of course back then you're, you're competing against the likes of Judy Rankin, Amy Alcott JoAnne Carner. Jane Blalock. Susie Maxwell Berning, Jan Stephenson, I mean, you're you're having to beat some pretty tough competition. Well,

Palmer, Sandra  10:41

you know, the second winner of that tournament, was Mickey Wright. She came out of retirement pretty much to come and play. And she, I mean, no one played like she did. So

Devlin, Bruce  10:56

everybody says the same thing. What is so I heard

Mike Gonzalez  10:59

that we heard that swing. Oh, yeah. Betty, Betty described the unique sound she made when she struck the ball.

Palmer, Sandra  11:09

Did you know that book the right way. That's a great, great book. And I took lessons from that was another thing back. I came out to the desert This was way before and took lessons from her one of her teachers was Harry Pressler. And I really got my swing and in good shape with him. So it was really magic moves from the ball to, to the steps of halfway back to the top halfway down, he had to do a lot of slow motion drills. So I was I was pretty good, then I should go back to that. Yeah, I was thinking

Mike Gonzalez  11:53

about that Dinah Shore when that was a paying little bit of money back mad

Palmer, Sandra  11:58

kind of, yes, that kind of set me up for the, for the season for sure. It's nice to have money in the bank, you know, at any, whatever it is.

Mike Gonzalez  12:11

So relative to the history, because you're a big part of this event over the years relative to history. That event, of course, for our younger listeners, they'll know now that it's it's under a different name. It's competing, they're competing down Texas now. It was first year down in Texas, but had a big celebration. I guess. After all those years of competing at Mission Hills, big celebration. 2022. You I know you were there. And I understand you had a little bit of an issue of puppies.

Palmer, Sandra  12:41

You know, things that you could bring up out, nobody could see my face is really red. That's probably one of my most embarrassing moments because we're all these champs where they're, they're gonna run and get into the pool. And I'm next, Patty Sheehan. And I was going to run with her course she did a flip. And I got my foot caught on something running down the hill, and I never I think I made a tumble and never made it to the water. So it was not very, it was not very graceful. And but anyway, I didn't

Devlin, Bruce  13:24

have a lot of people got it.

Palmer, Sandra  13:26

Well, I'm applying them. I was a little bit sore. I fortunately, I didn't break anything. But I could have. I could have hit my head on one of those rocks.

Mike Gonzalez  13:35

One of the chances they may show that clip at your World Golf Hall of Fame induction.

Palmer, Sandra  13:41

I hope not. Maybe somebody Oh, well, you know, you have to accept the bad with the good, I guess. Right?

Mike Gonzalez  13:53

That's right. Well, we all know how it gets right in the mind. Do you think you can still do it? And sometimes you just can't credit.

Palmer, Sandra  14:01

But it's it's a little bit more of a down downhill than you think. But yeah, anyway, I used to be an athlete. I can't say that I am now. But maybe you could answer a question for me. Why do they change names? I sort of like being called The Dinah Shore, the Colgate Dinah Shore champion, and I've won that tournament quite a few times. Now if I take every name that I've had with it, but I don't quite understand why. I guess if you're a sponsor, you take the history with it, too. I don't know. I'm not. I'm not keen on that.

Mike Gonzalez  14:39

Some people don't though. That's how I would know the answer. We all know the answer. It's all about money.

Palmer, Sandra  14:45

But I don't much like I like being done ashore. Yeah,

Mike Gonzalez  14:52

well, great history there and I'm sure they'll try to continue the tradition as best they can honoring Dinah and And David's memory and the memory of a great, great event that was at Mission Hills.

Palmer, Sandra  15:05

The Chevron was good this year. They brought in the past champions this year and it was a wonderful event. They really, yeah, it was wonderful.

Mike Gonzalez  15:14

Yeah, it was a big one. Bruce.

Devlin, Bruce  15:19

U.S. Women's Open in Atlantic City. 1975. Wins by four over JoAnne Carner, Nancy Lopez and Sandra Post with a rather high high winning score. So the weather could not have been too good rounds of 78, 74 ,71, 72 got better ever. Like you said, All you got to do is win 

Palmer, Sandra  15:43

win by one. Well, it was it was a very long course it had been raining, coming into that event. And one of my great memories of that event at that time. Atlantic City Country Club, it's a different name now. I think another casino owns it now. But anyway, at the back of the range, there were these little cottages that you could stay in. So I was able to get one at the very end. I always like being on the end. And on that Monday, it was really pouring down. So there was no way you could get out on the course. But I saw one person out there hitting balls. And she had her rain suit on her caddy was with her with an umbrella. And I thought if she can do it, I can do it. So I got dressed and I went out there and started practicing. And that person was Patty Berg.

Devlin, Bruce  16:51

darn cute. So

Palmer, Sandra  16:53

I always every time I'd say you're so you really inspired me. So yeah, she was not a young lady then she probably had to be at least in her 60s or so. But she

Devlin, Bruce  17:07

was young lady there though that week. A very young lady. Yes. With a fabulous career brother. Lemme Nancy Lopez she was an 18 year.

Palmer, Sandra  17:16

I think she was 16. If you don't mind if I dispute that like you, but I think she was 16. But yes, and I had heard about her, and that she was going to be this up and comer. But, you know, I know that through the years. I just Nancy Lopez did so much for our tours. I always call her the Arnold Palmer of the LPGA she always had a smile for everyone. She always took time with everyone. And I know that through the years she had opportunities to win the US Open and did not and if you and you have probably have spoken to her so I'm sure she cries when she talks about Pumpkin Ridge. She did I know she does. And she would try so many of her ways for burrow in so you know, the USGA, they, when you go to one of their events, you know, you got to bring your game so they never put a pin in the middle of the green. So, you know, it's gonna be tough, so I'm very honored to have my name on that trophy.

Mike Gonzalez  18:24

Well, it was kind of cool. I was at the USGA headquarters last week, I might have mentioned this to you and got a tour of the museum. Of course, I was there to help Bruce and I put together our arrangement with the USGA where they're going to archive our, our podcast these life stories for future generations. And I walked into the championship room where they've got the championship boards and of course up on the 75 board you've got Sandra Palmer, U.S. Women's Open champion 1975 will be there forever.

Palmer, Sandra  19:00

Yeah, well, it warms my heart that that that particular tournament has helped me get more jobs. Anyway, I'm very appreciative of it

Mike Gonzalez  19:13

you were tied for the lead after three rounds with with Sandra Post and Sally Little. Sally by the way shot a first round at so she came back quite nicely to after a tough opening round. But that last day must have been brutal and so to shoot, you know five birdies five bogus shoot 72 That last day and in what what I read to be 30 mile an hour winds that had to be a heck of a round for you.

Palmer, Sandra  19:37

It was a heck of a round for me. So you know, again. I think when I'm in contention, a lot of times I don't really know. You know, sometimes you're in that little thing called the zone type thing. You're just playing it and Harvey Penick always stressed about playing one shot at a time. So that's how I've tried to. There's no secret in golf. But if you can just forget what you've done and just get up and try to play that one shot to the best of your ability, what? You know, that's how you managed to get over the anxiety and all the things that go with the golf. So that's what I've always tried to do. But uh, do you mind if I tell you kind of another little interesting story along that line with Atlantic City Country Club we are playing in at seaview. They've had a tournament there for many, many years. And the USGA was bringing in they're awfully good about doing this. But they brought in past champions to the 50 if it was going to be in at the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs. And so I'm going I don't have an exemption to play or anything you think it's only eight or 10 years that that you get invited. So I thought, What the heck, I think I'm gonna go try to qualify, I'm going anyway, and I'm still playing. So how would you like to go try to qualify on the course where you'd already won the US Open? Now, isn't that weird, does it so I had not played that course since I had one. And I started out I'm playing with Debbie Massey. And I started out over par. I mean, I was like four or five over par. And I just can't tell you something happened. There was like this aura or something over me that I just started failing what I had done, and I shot 70. To qualify,

Mike Gonzalez  21:49

wow.

Devlin, Bruce  21:51

I can't believe four or five over

Palmer, Sandra  21:53

I started out. Yeah. And all of a sudden, I don't know. It just happened and I shot 70 could. So when you go to to an event which was at Colorado Springs, you're paired they always if you're a past champion, they always pair you with great players. So here I am, kind of at the end of my career, but I'm paired with Beth Daniel and Nancy Lopez now he talked about being frightened. I hadn't played in front of that many people in years. And if you play ever played the Broadmoor, they're probably the most difficult greens that you've ever put it on. You think you're going uphill, you're going downhill. So anyway, I didn't fare very well, but it was a big thrill. And that's when I think Annika Sorenstam won her first U.S. Open there.

Mike Gonzalez  22:47

She did. Yeah, yeah, she did. So back to your winning 75. Is there one hole or one shot that really stands out for you that finally the US

Palmer, Sandra  22:55

Open? Yeah. Well, I don't know. Maybe the The 17th Hole maybe that was a par three. And I think I was to the left of the green and got it up and down. So I might have known how I stood coming in the last few holes. They probably had a leaderboard, and but I don't you know, I just I just remember some of those holes, early holes out on the front, none, which was by the Bay Area where the wind would really be blowing. I mean, you know, the the wind has to be your friend. You're from Texas. That's one thing you learned right away is it is that you you cannot fight that you got to play it. I always had trouble with the left or right way into especially off the tee. You just have to play it, you know?

Mike Gonzalez  23:52

Well, you partially answered my question earlier. And the question is this. You when your first major How does your life change? You mentioned you got a lot of other jobs. What are what else changed for you?

Palmer, Sandra  24:04

Well, just more my confidence than anything and it was that year particular year it enabled me to go on and have this extraordinary year for you know,

Mike Gonzalez  24:16

yeah 76 was

Palmer, Sandra  24:17

76 wasn't bad. That's that was a heartbreaker for me that losing in that playoff to I lost in that playoff to miss this.

Mike Gonzalez  24:28

Yeah, let's talk about your win first up in Bloomington at the Bicentennial Classic this was at Lake Monroe at the Point Golf Course in Indiana. Where you beat Ms. Carner and Laura Baugh by

Palmer, Sandra  24:39

shot See you when you when you when you don't know who's finishing. I wasn't paired with them. I wasn't paired with them. I don't I don't remember who I was paired with. But that was a tough course. So I wanted Indiana a couple times. Yeah, that's that's a good state for me.

Mike Gonzalez  24:58

So the next one was a little tough, wasn't it? The next open the U.S. Open 1976 We're now at Rolling Green Country Club. This was won by JoAnne Carner Her second but you almost went back-to-back I did.

Palmer, Sandra  25:10

The the thing that I kind of remember not before the playoff on the very last hole was was a dope is a par four or five but it was a pretty long hole. And I remember hitting the green and I left my putt short I had a left to right putt, I had to make this part to go into the playoff. There was such silence on that green you could you could hear the opinion draw. And when I made that putt, it was like this explosion. I can still hear that. And anyway so going you know into the interview and having to realize it at that time there the playoffs were 18 holes. I'm not sure when they stopped doing that. But that might have been one of the last ones they they ever had. But I think my claim to fame is that I at that particular tournament. I'm thinking to myself if I don't turn as big as I can, Big Mama is going to add hit me 100 yards. And that's what I told the press Big Mama and I named her that's where she got the nine big mama and her husband Don was mad because he thought I was making making a comment about her. But it was in reference to how far she hit the ball and of course she did me but I remember so much about that play off. Like I said I wish I knew then what I know now but I don't think I slept all night. Well if you were playing against JoAnne Carner You probably wouldn't have a very good night's sleep but it seemed like everything she did that she would hit it you know she's never been known to be the straightest ball striker she you worry about her when she's in trouble. That's what happens. But she would be like two inches and in bounds but I think I had quite a few three putts that day and, and then on the 17th Hall, which was a short par five, she's in the woods, and I'm down the middle. And if I ever have a shot I think of this shot today there's a bunker that that said about 50 yards from the green. And I had a side hill lie I could have hit any club in the world to lay up short of that bunker but I hit hit my maybe a five wood or something in that bunker I could hit an eight iron and probably still had a short arm to the grain and I hit in that bunker I made six somehow. She came out of those woods and made a four and I made a six.

Devlin, Bruce  28:18

You ever wondered,

Palmer, Sandra  28:19

how will you want ahead at that time and I've lost it on the last haul. So it was very disappointing. So I needed better emotional control. And

Mike Gonzalez  28:31

that story reminds me of Jan Stephenson telling her with maybe her dad on the bag. Bruce, about similar situation. Bunker front of the somewhere. And her dad says look, we've been practicing this wedge shot for months and months. You got it dialed in. Let's just lay it up there safe. Yeah, Wedge it up there making a birdie that's what she did to win.

Palmer, Sandra  28:57

I also had a local caddy there too. I think I had the caddy master. For some reason the guy, maybe the guy that I had we had a falling out or something. I don't know what happened. But anyway, I ended up with the caddy master at that tournament, which helped because he knew the greens but also to that was a very hard course I don't know, probably still is. But a funny story that brings back a memory there is that, you know the USGA used to they're better I think now that they would let the Greens get kind of crispy, so you could start seeing your footprints. That's not good. And anyway, I remember calling Harvey Penick and saying I said Harvey these greens are so fast and I'm thinking he's going to maybe suggest something like hold down on the putter or maybe I don't think he would say change powders. But you know what he said? Don't say hit him so hard so

Mike Gonzalez  30:09

that's like Jim Colbert whining about all the foreigners taking the purse money in the players meeting he says, Hey boys, play better.

Palmer, Sandra  30:18

Anyway, Harvey would always kind of, you know, get you back to good thinking and I remember a few times calling him I guess when you sky your driver when you're too steep and you hit down on it. So I remember one time calling him and saying Harvey, I'm Skyn my driver. And he said, I bet you miss more putts. And you did drives me back to reality. That's what he did.

Mike Gonzalez  30:50

Thank you for listening to another episode of for the good of the game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify if you like what you hear, please subscribe. Spread the word. Tell your friends until we tee it up again. For the good of the game. So long, everybody

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