Justin Leonard - Part 1 (The Early Years)

Music playing  00:00

Mike Gonzalez  00:15

Welcome to another edition of FORE the Good of the Game and Bruce Devlin. Not only do we have a fellow Texan with us, we've got a fellow that one of our former guests calls, Francis.

Devlin, Bruce  00:29

Huh, that's interesting. We'll bet we'll find out about how that happened. But this gentleman we have with us today is I believe the youngest of the males that we've had on our Fore the Good of the Game. He is Open champion 1997. 12 victories on the PGA Tour. And it is indeed a pleasure to have Mr. Justin Leonard with us this morning, Justin, thanks for joining us.

Leonard, Justin  00:55

Of course. Good morning to both of you. Thanks for having me on.

Mike Gonzalez  00:59

Yeah. Nice to have you, Justin. We've got a lot to cover. And as we've talked about before, we're here to tell your story in your voice. And so we always go back to the very beginning. And I think our listeners now and in 50 years when they listen to this episode will be very interested to hear about life growing up in Texas.

Leonard, Justin  01:23

Yeah, you know, growing up in Texas, in Dallas, you know, of course, you know, you think of Ben Hogan and Byron Nelson. And that's, I heard about both gentlemen quite a bit when I was growing up my my dad grew up in Fort Worth, not too far from, from Shady Oaks and, and from Colonial and, and, in fact, he may or may not have at some point during high school or college, kind of climbed over the fence and played a few holes at both golf courses, because he was not my my grandparents were not members of either club. But he used to go watch Ben Hogan play over Colonial he watched Byron Nelson, of course, and, and, you know, and then you've got Lee Trevino and Lanny Wadkins, and then, you know, all in the Dallas area and then down in Austin with Crenshaw and  Tom Kite. So there's quite a legacy of Texas golf and and certainly a lot of people to look up to and admire along the way.

Mike Gonzalez  02:28

Well, you mentioned a history of Texas golf. Our first interviews were with some of your fellow members of the Texas Golf Hall of Fame course you and Bruce, both members of the Texas Golf Hall of Fame. And we started out with Lanny and David Graham, and we also had Robert Stennett with us who runs the Ben Hogan Foundation down there. So certainly a great history of golf in that state, which we'll talk about. Tell us a little bit about as a kid, when you first got exposed to the game of golf.

Leonard, Justin  03:05

My parents were were members at Royal Oaks Country Club, and they both played weekend golfers and and when I was like five or six years old, I think I got a five iron and a putters cut down. My mom even handmade a little canvas golf bag. And there were no pockets on it, she put a little strap on it, and in the bottom of it to keep it somewhat round she she got the top of a cool whip. If you remember what that is, I know you do do some of our listeners while but but but the lid of the cool went down at the bottom so it would kind of stay somewhat round rather than totally collapsing. And so, you know, I would tag around with them on on Sundays. And you know, they they'd hit their drives and throw my ball down somewhere down the fairway and I would hit and kind of just hit and chase it. And when they were done with the hole wherever I was, I would pick up and go the next hole with them. So you know gradually I figured out that if I ever wanted to plot I needed to play on either play better or play faster. And so you know, I did that for a year or so. And then I got a set of you know, speaking in a Ben Hogan little bed and it was like, you know three would have five iron seven iron nine iron pottering, so, you know, played with that for a while and and you know, pretty, I kind of caught the eye of buddy cook a little bit he was the head pro there and then Randy Smith was was kind of the lead assistant. And you know, pretty soon buddy took on another opportunity and so Randy became the head Pro and, you know, I grew up going to the junior clinics in the summertime in June. You know, playing with, you know, guys that were my age and maybe a couple years older And, you know, once I got to like 12 1314, my dad and his buddies invited me to play on Saturday. And so, you know, I would get up Saturday mornings and play with my dad and his group and, and they, they tried everything in the world to distract me. They were, you know, they, they took a lot of pride in saying that they're the reason I'm mentally tough is because of playing with them. But really, it was like, I think another thing that I learned was Bruce, you know, it's a skill to be able to watch amateur swing, and not really see it or not, you know, you're looking at it, but you're really not taking it in. And I think I learned that skill from playing my, my dad and his buddies, because they were

Devlin, Bruce  05:48

swinging like them, huh? No,

Leonard, Justin  05:50

I mean, they were, they were good golfers. They weren't winning any club championships in the eighth light, that kind of thing. But it was a fun group. And they, you know, they always had a little game, and I was likely to, to, you know, win five or $10. And I usually want to get those guys. But they were, you know, there was a lot of coin rattling in the pocket. And they try and, you know, don't hit it in that bunker over there, just that kind of stuff. And, and so it was a lot of fun. And then as I, you know, 1314, I started playing a little bit more with with the high school kids and, and, you know, they hit it 30 and 40 yards, by me, but I had to figure out a way to compete with these guys, because they weren't given me any shot, like my dad's group, you know, was and, and. And so, you know, I think that's how I like developed a better short game and wedge game, because a lot of the times I couldn't get to some of the par fours and and trying to figure out okay, how am I going to compete with these guys, they're able to reach the greens and two with men short irons, and, you know, I'm back there hitting a three wood trying to figure out how to run it back past a bunker on to the front edge of the green. And so playing with players that were better than me that hit it further than me that had a different and a sharper skill set than I did, I think really helped me develop and, and, you know, I love to practice growing up, I spent, you know, I mean, a summer I was just a Golf Course from 7am until, you know, eight or nine o'clock at night. And a lot of times, you know, the high school kids, they wouldn't show up till like noon or one o'clock. So I would go out early in practice, and even sometimes play 18 holes before they even got there. And so there were a lot of 36 old days. And you know, a lot of breaks at the pool in between because there's, you know, in Dallas and June and July and August could get a little warm. So we jump right in the pool and our golf shorts and swim for 20 minutes and then go back out and played nine holes or something like that. So it was a great place to grow up. You know, and, you know, it's fun being still being a member there. I don't get there back back there as often as I'd like. But my parents are still in Dallas. My our second daughter Avery is headed to SMU in the fall. So there's a chance some of the folks at Royal Oaks may may see me around there a little more often these next few years.

Devlin, Bruce  08:31

So at that time, Justin, but had you had you had any lessons from from Mr. Smith at all? You know, when you're in high school?

Leonard, Justin  08:42

Yeah, I started I started working with Randy occasionally, you know, eight, 910 years old buddy cook, you know, I had a lesson or two with him. And then Randy kind of took over when he got the head job there. And it wasn't like a lot. I mean, it was I would see him you know, once a month I saw him every day. But as far as he and I actually you know having a lesson or working together. It was it was fairly spread out he gave me a little something to work on. And I would go do it work on it for you know, a couple of weeks or a month and play tournaments and everything and and then we come back and revisit and you know, and I remember he was working a lot with DEA wiring at the time and so I got to watch. I got to watch Randy work with D.A. Weibring in a little bit some with Curt Byrum. And, you know, I remember watching Lee Trevino come out the Royal Oaks and hit balls and and Lee would take a shag bag out on the Golf Course and find a little patch of grass and he would hit short irons just down the fairway and he'd hit you know 50 or 60 balls down the fairway and in he usually did that early in the morning. And so when I would be out playing by myself early in the morning. He'd waved me off and it off and I wanted desperately to hit my ball into his pile. Because I knew his the balls in his jag bag were much better than the golf ball I was playing. What I didn't realize is that if I ever and I never got it in there, because this pattern was so tight, what I didn't realize is if I ever got into he would know exactly who did it because he'd see a, you know, an XL Top Flite in his bag of whatever it was he was playing. But you know, getting to be around that. I mean, I think it's a little bit parallel to like Scottie Scheffler. He grew up at Royal Oaks and a time when I was out there practicing quite a bit, and Colt Knost and Harrison Fraser and Ryan Palmer and you know, Scotty would pull up, you know, he'd be over there practice and stuff. And then he'd take a break, grab some water, and come over and turn up, you know, arrange basket upside down and sit on it for 20 minutes and watch Randy and I work together. So a lot of parallels there. But it was again, just a great place to grow up a great Golf Course. But really the you know, it's the membership and the way the embrace the junior golf program, the way Randy embraced it and and really, you know, nurtured a lot of good young players.

Mike Gonzalez  11:18

Yeah, so question I've got you mentioned Lee Trevino and the shag bag. I'm just wondering whether you're a little too young to have had your own shag bag back then.

Leonard, Justin  11:27

Oh, I was yeah, we, you know, Royal Oaks was built in a in a floodplain. And so anytime after a flood, we would go down to the creek on number nine. And all these golf balls would wash down the creek and they'd end up getting caught up in the rocks. So we go down there and you know, fish the ball trying to avoid the snake and fish to the golf balls out of the creek. And, you know, sometimes, you know, once you polish them up, there were actually combos that were worth using. But, but ya know, I wasn't using a shag bag at that time. I mean, anything that I found I played.

Mike Gonzalez  12:06

So another question that we've got that Bruce and I get into with most of our guests. Tell us about other sports did you play other sports as a young man as well?

Leonard, Justin  12:16

I did, I played I play kind of a rec league soccer. At the time, I was about eight or nine until I was I think around 13 years old. And I played forward for a little while. And then I got I played defense. And we had some good teams. But then to kind of keep progressing in soccer, it was time to kind of join a club team and and that was three practices a week, two games a week, the season was nine or 10 months long. And I enjoyed being at the Golf Course more than I then I liked being on the pitch. So I moved away from soccer I played one maybe two years of like machine pitch baseball and that never took and I remember standing by the pitching machine and I got hit in the head by line drive. And I that may have been my last game I say you know what, I don't want to do this anymore. So you know the food and the pool and everything over at Royal Oaks was a lot more comfortable for me so play some other sports I I kind of wished I kept playing soccer for a little bit and maybe not go the club team route. But you know maybe just continue playing rec league but again I was I was pretty determined and and with with playing golf and so just stuck with that route. But I love watching your kids all play some team sports, love watching them play lacrosse and volleyball and tennis and soccer and those things. So I think team sports are important. For sure even for the development of a golfer.

Devlin, Bruce  14:07

Great. So you went to Lake Highland High School? They did. Did they have a golf team back when you were there?

Leonard, Justin  14:15

We did we had a golf team. We actually won the state championship my sophomore year. And then my junior and senior year the our teams didn't make it through past regionals but I was able to make it to state both years as an individual so we had a good team and like that was my that was my friend group. You know guys that I played in high school with because you know we're practice every day and and our golf season started in the fall and it didn't end until early May. So we played a lot of tournaments. Missed a decent bit of school which was okay with everybody but you know, I had you know some good team Ames. Great times. And, you know, a couple good coaches along the way there as well.

Mike Gonzalez  15:05

I'll give you some insight into why he might have asked what seems to be a fairly obvious question. We've been interviewing a lot of the women, major champions over the past year. And so you can imagine talking to some of these women who are some 90 years old that won the U.S. Open in 1956, or 1962. And so you get into that issue. Well, not only was there not a women's golf team in high school, they didn't even have an opportunity to play in college. Math, right. So different dads, pretty incredible. Yeah, for sure. Guys, guys, your generation you think Well, wait a minute. Yeah, everybody's got a high school team. Well, a lot of these older players that we've talked to, never had the opportunity and sort of, they ended up being sort of self taught. And they tried to compete on the amateur circuit, but really didn't have any school opportunities to learn.

Devlin, Bruce  15:56

Right. So after high school, Justin, we headed down to Austin. Hmm.

Leonard, Justin  16:04

I did I was, you know, I took my time on recruiting trips I went to, I visited Oklahoma and Oklahoma State, Arizona and Arizona State SMU in Texas. And Harrison Frazier and I went on our recruiting trip together, down to Austin. You know, we had a great time, one of his teammates, high school teammates in Highland Park, Michael Cooper, who is also a good friend of mine, he played a lot at Royal Oaks growing up, he was already down there. And I, um, you know, once I visited at Austin and saw the campus and spend, you know, a couple of days around the golf team, I knew that's where I want to go to school. And you know, we had Harris and I, we roomed together a freshman year, we signed our letters of intent together. And so you know, and now come full circle here, we are playing on the Champions Tour together. So you know, it and some, you know, some lifelong friends from from those teams, you know, you kind of it's, it's hard to all stay in touch, but I've been able to reconnect with with a couple guys here in the last couple of years. And, and, you know, it's been fun. And then one of our, one of our teammates, Sean Paul Aver was the assistant coach at Texas for a long time. And now he's out as the head coach at UNLV. So, you know, it's fun, and especially this time of year with with regionals going on and and NCAA is, you know, we usually get a little text messaging back and forth. And so, great memories of my time in Austin,

Mike Gonzalez  17:44

does it seem like 33 years ago that you made your way down to that campus in Austin?

Leonard, Justin  17:52

No, it doesn't, especially now that I've got one in college, our second daughter is headed off to college, you know, last fall at dropping off our daughter, Reese is at University of Virginia. Those kind of memories of of my own first day on campus, came kind of flooding back. And so, you know, it's I know, it's been that long, but it doesn't really seem that long, especially now that are kind of living those moments with with our kids.

Mike Gonzalez  18:25

Yeah. One question I didn't ask earlier, but just relative to how you were attracted to golf, you talked about participating in team sports and individual sports. Some of our guests describe the solitude of golf as something that they just sort of took on as very attractive based upon their makeup, their personality. How did that fit with you did the solitude of the game sort of was it was that one of the attractions for you at all?

Leonard, Justin  18:53

I liked. I like to Solitude i like the independence. I think those two things are different. You know, the solitude is, to me is more about just spending time with yourself and in your own thoughts. And those things. I think the independence also attracted me and that I didn't have to wait for a coach or a team to show up to practice. I could, you know, do things the way

Mike Gonzalez  19:26

we'll start back in 1992. So I guess you would have maybe been the summer after your sophomore years. So when you went to Benton Harbor, Michigan at point of the woods to play in the in the 1992 Western Amateur which is run by the Western Golf Association that the Evans Scholar organization and you won that to up over David Howser.

19:51

Yeah, so 92 I played the week before in or maybe a couple weeks before and won the Southern Amateur and then I played the Western Amateur in the summer of 91, and actually made it to the finals and lost to Phil Mickelson. And, you know, that tournament is just, it's grueling, you play 18 holes, a stroke, play 18 holes again, the second day, the third day, they cut it to about 50 Guys, and you play 36 holes, stroke play, then they cut it to the low 16. And you play two matches, Saturday, two matches Sunday. And so to make it to the finals, it's a lot of golf. And then the next year, I made it to the finals again and played David Howser. And just you know, it's it's a great week, but it's a really long week and stay with a wonderful family. And that was like the most people I'd ever played golf in front of, because once especially when you get down to match play, and there's so few matches, and on Sunday, it's like everybody at the club and everybody from every surrounding town comes out to watch and so playing in front of, you know, four or 500 people, people surrounding the greens and the teas and walking down the fairways with us. It was a great atmosphere and to be able to do that at an amateur tournament. And you know, especially at such an elite amateur tournament was you know really gave me a lot of confidence. Let's put it that way

Devlin, Bruce  21:32

that must have because you also went and won the U.S. Amateur in 1992 at Muirfield Village where you beat Tom Scherrer eight and seven

21:44

Yeah, so it's just like a couple of weeks later went up to it and of course plan at Muirfield Village I'd watched The Memorial for so many years and when you watch tournaments like that feel like you know the Golf Course already of course I didn't have an advantage over anybody else because everybody watches the memorial and so but getting there and being able you know the practice facilities amazing you know, I played the US Am and the two previous years one at Cherry Hills and actually I didn't play the year prior because I was sick during the qualifier so but to get back and you know, the first thing is just to get through the stroke play 36 holes we played one round there at Muirfield village another round at a Golf Course just a couple miles down the road and and you know I made it through comfortably I think I ended up being you know, like the fifth or sixth seed if I remember David Duval was there he was playing great golf Tiger Woods made it through the stroke play qualifier you know, he was three or four years younger than us. So I think he was you know, maybe 16 or 17 at the time and and then as the week you know, the Golf Course started out very firm and fast as the USGA you know, loves to have it it was very difficult and then was either the second or third round of match play we actually had a rainout and last an entire day and from then on like the Golf Course sopping up for a couple of days and then it kind of got firmer and we actually didn't play the finals that year until Monday. But you know, had a couple of of kind of close matches scary matches along the way which I think probably served me well into the finals you know, my either my first or second round match was very close and then the quarterfinals I was actually for down through maybe 10 or 11 holes to David White and came back was able to come back and I think I want four or five holes in a row and and was able to win that match and then on Sunday in the semifinals I played Alan Doyle and you know Alan, great match play player. I'd spent a little bit of time around um, I mean look, I was scared of Alan as everybody was because he he was a big figure. He was a mid amateur he was probably 44 or five at that time. And you know, just tough as nails and so we're playing the semifinal match and and we're on the par 5/7 hole and I'm hitting my third shot and first and I hit it in the hole for three. So then he hits it to a foot He almost hit it in on top of me and then he hits it to like three feet at a into three feet at nine and so I was like wow, okay, I'm not gonna hold out anymore because obviously that doesn't sit well with with Mr. Doyle and it was you know, it was kind of a back and forth. I want a couple holes in the back nine and and, you know ended up beating Alan I think two and one. But that was that was a really hard fought match. And then you know to turn around and on on Monday morning, get ready for the finals. You know, it's a 36 hole finals. So we're teeing off early and, and I'm warming up and Tom Kite is there on the driving range. He come out he was in town, doing something with the Wendy's like they had one of those Wendy's 3- Tour Challenges that they were filming that day or the next day. And so he came out to watch and and I've met him a few times around Austin, and he would come and practice on occasion or talk to the team. But I distinctly remember that, you know, because it was a Monday, a lot of people had to go back to work. And so there weren't as many people out on that Monday morning. And I got off to a really good start. And you know, Tom has a pretty distinct voice. And I'm very good with voices. I'm not great with names. But I'm really good remembering voices. And I remember hitting a good shot into the second hole. And Tom is, you know, 60 yards away walking along the cart path on the other side of the creek. And I can hear him specifically say great shot. Like he was three feet from me. And it just kind of that continued throughout the day. I played very well in the morning, I think I was I won the last couple holes and was maybe four or five up after the morning session. And then, you know, Tom came over and shook my hand gave me some more words of encouragement he had to take off. And you know, fortunately, the lunch break didn't last long. Because I went out I think I won the, you know, whatever the 19th and 20th holes to build a pretty big lead and, and we got around to the 11th hole, you know, on the second 18 holes, and you know, I'm walking up to the green. And I wasn't really aware of exactly what was going on. But I I kind of figured out if I if I tied this hole, I thought the match would be over. And so sure enough, I like to put down there too, you know, a foot or so. And Tom took his hat off and came over and shook my hand and you know, we just we were able to have the ceremony right there on on the 11th green Muirfield Village, my parents and Randy Smith had flown in on Sunday to watch the semifinals and in the final match and so to be able to, you know, to have my folks there, and Randy there as well. Was was obviously very, very special.

Mike Gonzalez  27:57

Yeah, yeah, it sure was. So you mentioned Tiger Woods who was coming as a young man, he was in the midst of winning three juniors in a row. And so then John Harris wins the year after you and then it goes Tiger Woods, Tiger Woods, Tiger Woods for his six USGA championship.

Leonard, Justin  28:15

Yeah. Yeah, he had a really good run, you know, Tiger Woods on any Golf Course. But you get him on a Golf Course that the USGA setting up as, as great as his skill level was, it was his, you know, strategy, the way he approached the game, all those things from a mental standpoint is, you know, I think why he was able to separate himself so often, but certainly at that amateur level, it's separated. And

Mike Gonzalez  28:49

you mentioned earlier winning the Southern Amateur before the Western that was at the Farm Golf Club, and that was by nine over a fella. You mentioned Alan Doyle.

Leonard, Justin  29:01

Yeah, I came across him quite a bit. We were actually teammates, the walker cup in 93. And Vinnie Giles was our captain. And it was a great team. I mean, Brian, I'm gonna miss a couple guys, but Brian gGy, John Harris, who's on that team. Jay Sigel. Danny Yates, Todd Dempsey, David Berganio. Kelly Mitchum, Tim Herron and so when I got there, Vinnie Giles, who I'd gotten to know just just a little bit, said, well, Alan wants to play with you. And I said, really? He said, Yes, he wants to play with you. I go well, okay. I'm not gonna say no to Mr. Doyle. So we would, you know, we would play we played our practice rounds together and stuff and, and so, I asked Alan, you know, what's Alan, what's the game? He goes, Listen, don't worry about what the game is. You just make a bunch of birdies. And at the end of the day, I'll give you your money. So I never knew what we were playing for, which is good because I wasn't a big like gambler and this and that. And sure enough, we finished and he, you know, had me you know, 60 bucks or 100 bucks or something like that. And so, unfortunately, we had rain there as well on because it's just a two day event competition. We had rain on Saturday morning. So Saturday afternoon, I think we played 12 singles matches. And then Sunday morning, we played, you know, the team, foursomes match, and then 12 singles on Sunday afternoon, Sal and I only got to play competitively in one match. But we had a lot of fun. We had a good time.

Mike Gonzalez  30:53

Yeah, you had a great Walker Cup went three and oh, I think personally, but I want to go back to 92 because you know, you win the Southern Amateur, big deal. You win the Western Amateur, big deal. You win the U.S. Amateur, bigger deal. And your your years not over because you had a chance to represent the United States in the 1992 Eisenhower Trophy up and Vancouver. And the team finished second to New Zealand but that's not the point of the story. I just wanted to see how good you were with Eisenhower Trophy history. Okay. So the first question is, Which year did they hold the first Eisenhower Trophy team competition?

Leonard, Justin  31:36

No idea.

Mike Gonzalez  31:37

Would you have any guesses as to which Golf Course they would have played in the first Eisenhower Trophy competition?

Leonard, Justin  31:47

No, I don't.

Mike Gonzalez  31:48

Third question. Would you have any idea who the honorary captain of the U.S. side was for the first Eisenhower Trophy competition?

31:55

Okay. Well, if I said if I said Augusta National and Bobby Jones, that'd be ridiculous. So no, I don't know.

Mike Gonzalez  32:03

Okay, well, you're half right, Bruce, why don't you fill them in?

Devlin, Bruce  32:06

The first one was 1958, which was a little bit before you were around. So there's no wonder you didn't remember that. And that was at St. Andrews. And yes, yes. And that year, while the gentleman that you just mentioned got the key to the City of St. Andrews, in 1958. And, and it just so happened that the Australians beat the Americans that were very nice. Yeah. So there you go. That's why he wanted to do that he wanted me to get Yeah, that was a lot of fun, 

Mike Gonzalez  32:45

And by the way, because you were second to your team to New Zealand. Bob Charles was there representing New Zealand so  Bruce and Bob, were both in that audience hearing  that famous Bobby Jones speeches. He accepted the, the Key to the Burg as they called it back in 1958. And Bruce, by the way, was also the individual medalist.

Leonard, Justin  33:05

Yeah. Is that right? That's fantastic.

Devlin, Bruce  33:07

And one other point about that particular evening, there is a gentleman whose name you mentioned earlier, Mr. Crenshaw, who word for word can recite the pitch speech that Bobby Jones made that night? He's quite remarkable really when you think about it?

Leonard, Justin  33:27

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all Ben's uh, he takes being a golf historian to  new and unseen levels. Yes,

Mike Gonzalez  33:37

he sure does. When when when we started talking about this and he realized that Bruce was actually in the room almost brought tears to his eyes. It was a pretty cool one 

Leonard, Justin  33:46

Not surprised Yeah. But you know, a good a good taco will bring tears to Ben Crenshaw's eyes like it doesn't take much, let's be honest. Or really fresh, really fresh grapefruit juice will bring tears to Ben's eyes.

Mike Gonzalez  34:07

Yeah, you probably have some Ben stories. And we're gonna get back to him I'm sure later on as we talk about Ryder Cup but you jumped ahead with the 1993 Walker Cup. There was some other accomplishments that year because you went back to Point O' The Woods and repeated in the Western Amateur this time six and four over Danny Green.

34:30

Yeah, Danny Green's a character. He I don't remember exactly where he was from. He was definitely southern. Maybe somewhere in Georgia, but Danny green kind of supported himself and his golf with maybe some some aspects of gambling. I think he was a bit of a bookie and And because of that, that kind of background in luck, he didn't have his swing, you would bet the farm that, you know, a scratch, any scratch golfer could just beat the pants off at Danny. And I think that's part of the reason he swung like that because he wanted to, to lower his competitors into a false sense of, of superiority. But boy, he could play in I mean, he played he had a couple of years there on the amateur circuit where he played some great golf. And I look I really I enjoyed being around Danny, I loved sitting there and hit hitting balls next to him, or chipping and putting and listen to him tell stories. But playing against him, that was hard. Because he just he never gave up. He was very consistent. And obviously a great putter and chipper as well didn't hit the ball very far. Neither did I. So it was, you know, as I said earlier, that's a very long week, Danny wasn't the I wouldn't say he was the most felt or trim, you know, amateur at that level and certainly isn't mid amateur. So I think just walking all of that kind of took its toll on Danny, I think that's if I'd had to play him the first round of match play, I probably wouldn't have been able to beat him. But the fact that he'd had to play three matches before we played, you know, probably gave me a little bit of an advantage.

Mike Gonzalez  36:31

Yeah, well, you repeat it again, in the 1993. Southern Am as well, this was at Oak Tree and another fairly comfortable win by eight shots.

36:41

Yeah, it was, you know, that those two summers back to back and playing, you know, some great golf. And also, I think the fact that because I was able to win the U.S. Amateur 92, I played in, you know, three major championships and about four tour events. Combine that kind of into my college and amateur schedule. By the time I got to, you know, July and August where I was back to just playing amateur golf. I mean, I was, I was coming off playing at St. George and the open at 93. I played the U.S. Open Earlier in June, I played the masters that year, the U.S. Open actually played pretty well made the cut, you know, got to play on the weekend. And then coming off a plane St. George, it made Oak Tree look easy, which is very hard to do. So, you know, I felt like you know, going back and playing amateur level. It felt in some sense easier. From you know, playing at Baltusrol and the masters and I play Colonial that Byron Nelson and I played Bayhill you know, all those great events. I was kind of I was very comfortable at that point and confident playing, you know, amateur golf, and it felt easier. Just because of the you know, getting my, my, you know, my brains beat in by, you know, all of the guides on the PGA Tour a few weeks. So, you know, it's nice to be able to kind of play those tour events and kind of see where my game was and get a little bit of level of comfort, and then go back and amateur golf.

Mike Gonzalez  38:33

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