Ian Woosnam - Part 4 (The Ryder Cup and WGHOF)

Mike Gonzalez: 0:10

Let's look back at some of the other majors other than the Masters. Just a couple of things I'll ask you about one would be at the U.S. Open in 1989 Which speaking of Oak Hill you were T-2 there behind the Curtis Strange with Chip Beck and Mark McCumber so you had a pretty good U.S. Open there

Woosnam, Ian: 0:34

Yeah, yeah, I don't remember I took double bogey somewhere

Mike Gonzalez: 0:42

nine Yeah.

Woosnam, Ian: 0:44

Nine did I, double boat or did I take one on 15 or something?

Mike Gonzalez: 0:49

I think you bogeyed 14, Doubled nine

Woosnam, Ian: 0:51

doubled nine was it and yeah crippled me a little bit but yeah, I was booming it I can remember on that last hole I headed so far down there on the right hand side I think I just said a nine iron on the green on to the birdie the last I don't remember. Someone said on Twitter I birdied the last I don't I didn't think I birdied the last but might have been can't remember Yeah. But uh yeah, a great experience because I didn't really play that well and in majors in what I think you want to be a great major player you've got to be a great chipper and putter you've got an arm just wasn't quite I had me moments but I just wasn't consistent enough. You know, you get the people like Faldo he's just made for me majors you know? Great short game grind it out, put it in the right places. You know, some people are just you know, you know, just a little bit more natural or just play as it is, you know, maybe I'd be a bit different than in the times now a bit more of the stats and everything a bit more careful play in the right places as

Devlin, Bruce: 2:00

I know you would have loved to have won the Open Championship you finished? What four top fives there. So had a lot of chances huh?

Woosnam, Ian: 2:10

Yeah, again, you know, wasn't a lover of sea links golf courses. Winds into multiple probably bad bounces. I wan't that player that would try to land it short. So like I was sort of a player if like, right if you would have landed on the green I take a club less and smash it and try and put too much spin on it. Yeah, sort of Like, it's almost like I needed to use more of a ball which was I'll never forget playing with Christie O'Connor Senior when he played a Sea Links Golf Course he played like a Pinnacle so we could make it run onto the Greens it was quite interesting. And yeah, sort of like be insured and you put in too much spin on it just check just show the ground and but yeah, I had some moments that you know obviously Lytham destroyed me there. I think that was most probably going to be my moment there. Having an extra driver in the bag. I was only using it four times a day anyway. And I just you know tried to go back from a graphite steel shaft to a metal shaft and Robert Allenby it was I'll never forget it and you know, caddie just left it in the bag. You know, if I'm lucky. We started on a par three but if it had been a par four would have noticed it but yeah, I finished third whatever I finished, you know, I battled hard. But when you get something like that happened to you, I just couldn't get it out of my head really

Mike Gonzalez: 3:38

well Ian. You probably don't know this, but Bruce did a very similar thing. And it was at Lytham. Oh he didn't have he didn't have two drivers in the bag. He had zero drivers in the bag.

Devlin, Bruce: 3:51

Well, or at least I didn't use my driver. I was standing quick story. I was standing on a practice tee. Next to Trevino. We were paired together last day both playing like dogs. I said they can't I can't drive it. I can't drive in a 40 acre field. He said would try my driver. And I said no. Yes. You're, you know, you're five inches shorter than me and you stand about four inches further away from the ball and I do you think I can use your driver. He says just have it hit three perfect drives. I mean, right down the middle. He said, We'll both use that driver today. I said what? He said, Yeah, it'll be easy said we'll have an RNA guy with us. And whoever has the honor, take my driver and then while he's looking at the ball, we can just switch behind him. And we did that all day. Nobody. The R&A guy never picked it up. And about 10 years later Trevino has ever dinner after he'd won the open and he said to dinner with I'm trying to think of the name. I think it was Peter Dawson. Peter Dawson is sitting next to Peter Dawson, he says to Dawson. I need to ask you a question do you think Bruce Devlin and I should turn back the 103 pounds that we won when we played at Lytham and usee the same driver? He said what he said yeah, we say yes surely Sure you did just I've heard enough of your stuff that's a quick story no driver

Woosnam, Ian: 5:20

That's brilliant, imagine try to do that now.

Devlin, Bruce: 5:24

Oh God, could you imagine? Anyhow

Woosnam, Ian: 5:30

it's funny that talking about you know, I've just got a driver now and it's quite interesting. Because it with you know, with the the new drivers are so upright, and it's difficult for being so so. So short and yeah, because you've got a driver coming in at 55 degrees angle now with eight degrees loft on it's up in the air. It's taught us so much of it. This one. Now I've got it looks like it's like running away from it's really a fade probably. A proper like, powerful fade.

Mike Gonzalez: 6:08

the golden era of the Ryder Cup. It was a transformational period because, you know, for our listeners starting in 83, which we'll talk about all these but 83 PGA National you know, the European players have just come on the team you got some young stars have emerged and it takes Lanny Wadkins stuffing one on 18 to just edge out for the U.S. side Nicklaus of course, heading up the U.S. side Jacklin on the European side. And now, all bets are off because you guys are coming. You guys are for real.

Woosnam, Ian: 6:56

Yeah, I said, I hadn't played before that. But it's my first one and Jacklin's First one was it I think it was? Yes. So he's upgraded everything so we've gone from a sort of a Ford Escort to a sort of like an Aston Martin so we all get there or Concorde or whatever it was, and we're having a have great time, Paul. PGA National West. Really hard Golf Course by the away. So yeah, so didn't know much what was going on? I can, all I can remember is that I didn't play the first day of the first round. And for some reason I plan in the afternoon was Sam Torrance. And we come to the tee. And I'm so nervous, you know, physically wanted to go to the bush on the side and get rid of vomit everywhere. Telling Sam that he says he taps me on the shoulder and says, Don't worry, I'll look after you. So first of all, sorta like the first little hole something like 350 or 380. So, Sam gets on the tee we're playing after we're playing Calvin Peete and Ben Crenshaw. So they're gone. That Sam gets on the Tee, three wood boom straight right in the bushes. All right, I think it's gone. It's gone out of bounds lost the ball. Thanks.

Devlin, Bruce: 8:30

I'll take carry of you he said

Mike Gonzalez: 8:33

you'll want to

Woosnam, Ian: 8:34

one iron down the middle nine iron on the green pop. Birdie, We halve the hole. second hole, water all down the left isn't it good good hole drive and a five iron or somewthing, Sam on the two straight in the water. Left. Boom, I drive it down the fairway on the green two put get a half. next hole back down the other way par five coming the other way. But Sam on the tee boom straight left in the water but I make birdie. I'm two under after three. And then of course par three. The next one. He has seven birdies after that. Yeah, I think we shot seven, we halved the match. We're both like seven and nine under or something. It was fantastic match and what an experience. So that was my opening match. Playing them two guys. It was brilliant. Yeah. You got Calvin Peete and he was like Daniel Dart he was Yeah, it was brilliant to watch. Sometimes. I thought I tried to play like that. So I keep my left arm bent all the way through the shot. It works you know? Little cutter just do that.

Mike Gonzalez: 9:53

Yeah, we just remember. Tony taken us through the lead up to this Ryder Cup in 83 and how he was very insistent on Okay, we're gonna step by, step up our game here we're gonna fly the Concorde we're gonna have team meeting rooms, we're gonna have proper kits, Pringles, whoever going to outfit us and we're going to be we're gonna be more like the Americans and really take this thing seriously and it's got to be properly funded. And boy, he did he get a good thing started

Woosnam, Ian: 10:20

Yeah, that was a change and I think like he did for you guys. it for three or four years ago many many years and I think he did it before, but it was a backbone of definitely for me when I was sort of like the captain of the Ryder Cup. I managed it the same way as he did basically. Other some other players were different than that, who managed it. But I just thought it was fantastic the way Tony did it. Obviously, as a young player, you come to me and talk to me and find out I always feel we'd like to play with you alright, playing with him. And you know, when I was always I didn't matter who I played, but I didn't I got on with everybody. And eventually obviously put me in 87 he put me in with Faldo and that was, you know, everybody thought, oh, that's strange. But when you think about it was a great move. Because Nick was so steady, wasn't it? We're playing Muirfield village. And he's just you know, he's down the fairway he's making lots of pars on there's me I'm sort of like a wild man. I can make 10 birdies or I can make none. You know, I think it matched out really good. It made me relaxed because I knew he was going to make some pars and be steady. And I think he relaxed him because he knew I was gonna make some birdies. So we played great together. It was a great team.

Mike Gonzalez: 11:45

Yeah, between those two Ryder cups and 83 and 87 Of course, you went to the Belfry, won that was when Trevino was heading up the U.S. side and then that loss at Muirfield Village with Jack still the Captain again, and Jacklin on your side. We've heard it described by guys like Curtis Strange. I mean, Lanny Wadkins as about as painful a loss as we're ever gonna have

Woosnam, Ian: 12:08

well, yeah, yeah, a lot of people don't realize when Ohio, Muirfield? Yeah, it's, it's, it's a state or where a lot of Europeans went to, because it's like a mining place. area. So a lot of people came over from the UK. And when it came down to a lot of support we had, it was incredible. We had so much support for the Europeans and I'll never forget Jack and all the team he had to go and get flags to get people to sort of like get some support. It was brilliant. But, you know, jack had sent the Golf Course up the fastest greens ever. And everyone was like, Oh, this is great. You know, I loved it. So I'll never forget playing with Faldo and we're playing Tom Kite and Curtis Strange, you know what Curtis is like, he's like, there's two guys who hate to lose isn't it.

Devlin, Bruce: 13:05

Boy, and that's the truth. Yeah,

Woosnam, Ian: 13:07

And Lanny Wadkins. He doesn't like it either. So a lot of them anyway, but it was a great week. And as I say, like, Jack was fantastic. Everybody was fantastic. And it was, it was a magnificent show anyway, so it was great golf. Let's put it that way. Not not just for the Ryder Cup, but it was good for golf. Yeah, yeah,

Mike Gonzalez: 13:31

We'll talk about uh, maybe not so favorite memory. And that's the what they call the War by the Shore. Now that's the 91 Ryder Cup at Kiawah, which was Gallagher against Stockton and those sides. Great matches, I won't go into a lot of the details. We've talked about it with. I bet we've had two thirds of the players on our program, you know, talking about these various Ryder Cups. But the thing I always remember and this is the side of things that the fans just don't see. You know, win or lose. You guys are still buddies and still hang out and, and Cory Pavan told us that you kind of helped him on the on the bus on the last night's dinner. I guess there were there were maybe supposed to be two buses and you were able to all sort of jam into one to go to dinner together. Do you remember anything about

Woosnam, Ian: 14:16

I don't remember much about it? Was probably so I'll come I was helping him. Yeah.

Devlin, Bruce: 14:23

Might have been the blind leading the blind. Is that what you're saying?

Woosnam, Ian: 14:26

It would have been Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're weak. Oh, yeah. I'm thinking the wrong one. Yeah. Oh, I mean, yeah, there was a lot of people upset. A lot of a lot of tears and everything. But yeah, that's how it goes. You know what I say? You just Yeah, two years time, we could be in the opposite position. And it's, you know, well, I was always for one going to either to their tea room or we come to our tea room and we're all friends. just it's just a game of golf. I know. But that's, that's the beauty about it. Everybody just wants to win. And, and it's great to see that passion in the guys, you know. And that's what it's all about is that it's funny, it doesn't matter if I was playing groups tomorrow, I want to use acid. I mean,

Devlin, Bruce: 15:21

you wouldn't have any trouble.

Woosnam, Ian: 15:26

So many shots are giving you a boost.

Devlin, Bruce: 15:28

Yeah, well, you'd have to give me shots. I can assure you that. I wouldn't. I would take a shot for every two years older than

Woosnam, Ian: 15:37

that red tees as well. Yeah,

Devlin, Bruce: 15:39

yeah, no, I'll say if the same team that'd be fun. I'd love to do one day play with you. That'd be a lot of that'd be a thrill of my life to do it.

Mike Gonzalez: 15:51

So tell us about the the experience you had in 2006 being the Captain of the European side.

Woosnam, Ian: 15:55

Well, I dream of being a captain and I was more nervous about doing speeches and being a captain, too. But I was made to captain and was in Dubai. First thing I did is just start my speech straight away. And, and I was I know, I'd been been a vice captain for Sam and I knew we use this guy who writes speeches and things comes and sees you. So it was great. I had this guy out. I wrote the speech sort of thing. And it was quite interesting where he says, You just got to take your time, really and so like, so you do a line and then you put like 10 dots on to three knots like seconds. And you'd wait and start and and it was good. We had some moments, picking the teams, you know, I'd Thomas beyond. He didn't like me not picking him. He went ballistic. Put a bit of pressure on me. Obviously, Darren Clarke is his wife passed away. It was very emotional. Darren was playing fantastic golf. He took a few months off or whatever it is. And I asked him to play and he thought about it and you know, I said like, you know, it's be fantastic in the memory of his of his wife. And he eventually said yes. And then when he came down it was either Thomas Bjorn or Lee Westwood two fantastic players and I did in the spare the moment five minutes before before the you know, when I was in the press room swept with Lee Westwoodd. I think they were very close friends. They've been given the same stable say manager spent a lot of time together. And as it turned out, it worked out fantastic. They won every single match together and and it you know, that Ryder Cup is you know, we weren't playing the strongest team that that that week, but it was a great memory. Yeah, it's we didn't lose any sessions or anything won every session. Yeah, yeah, it was a great experience. And, you know, sitting out talking in front of guys that you know, you've known all your life, but you're the captain now they're gonna listen to you and say, you know, there's no, there's no superstars in a team that was one of my own. That's my thing. You're all in individuals in your new role. You're all exactly the same. So in a waste, they treat anybody different and that's when we're only there to do one thing and that was to win. Right?

Mike Gonzalez: 18:33

So speaking of team play, you were able to represent Wales in quite a few different competitions, including the World Cup and the Dunhill Cup. What are some of your favorite memories from those?

Woosnam, Ian: 18:44

Well, obviously the World Cup playing in Hawaii and playing with a good old friend of mine, David Llewellyn. Bruce you know, David Llewellyn?, I do yeah, great guy full life and always got a massive smile on his face. Anyway. We're playing in a way on the weather is so windy and so wet. Anyway, so I ended up shooting someone like 14 and apart. I beat the next player by seven player seven shots. I think that was Payne Stewart and he was seven shots better than anybody else. And my partner like David Llewellyn was like 14 over par here I mean, but we win in a playoff against Sandy Lyle and, and Sam Torrance. And it was really funny because I lost score lost count because Sam had gone out of bounds but then made a birdie with his second shot it was a par five so I ended up as that I'd made a par Sandy made a par on Sam and made a six now Llewellyn I thought if for some reason you had a putt for a four but he had like a six footer for a par which was going to win it. And I' sort of like thinking he's got two for it, so I must say, I'm not really concentrating. Anyway, he holes it. Obviously jumping around everywhere we win. We win and everything anyway. So after about, you know, a year later, we're having a chat. He says, Yeah, I built I built. I built a big room on my house. I called it Woosie's House. You paid for it.. David, you holed the putt at the end mate? Yeah. Yeah, we played some, you know, playing the World Cup. We went everywhere playing the World Cup. Oh, yeah. You know, and the Nissan Cup is what I played. the Hennessey Cup. We played so many great events playing you know, the Dunhill Cup. Golf was fun. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez: 20:52

17 World Cups Bruce. Yeah, no, and Mr., Devlin. 17 years before you won the World Cup in Hawaii. He and Mr. David Graham went down to South America for one in 1970. Yeah.

Woosnam, Ian: 21:08

1970. I missed that one.

Devlin, Bruce: 21:10

Yeah, you weren't quite up to speed then. Well,

Woosnam, Ian: 21:14

It was a funny but another story for you go like yeah. we're playing in Italy. And I'm playing with a young guy called Phil Price was not so young. It's about 55 now, and I'm playing with him. And we're leading. I'm leading individual by miles and playing great. We're playing the 16th hole and Phil Price is really, really slow anyway. And I'm bursting for a pee. This is real. I'm bursting, but it's the it's the 70th hole. I'm playing with Sam Torrance again and Colin Montgomery. I've knocked it in to about 20 foot and I'm walking up this hill to the green with the ball there. And I see this bathroom at the back. Port-a-loo. No one in it. And I thought gotta go for a pee. Run to me ball got to start again to the to the por-a-loo. And I thought Oh, sugar. Forgot to mark it. Anyway, 2-shot penalty, double bogey. We lose by a shot. The World Cup. Sorry, I won the individual but my partner felt so sorry. Okay. Sam is looking at me like, well, I've got can't do a Bruce Devlin. Just say.

Mike Gonzalez: 22:53

My you could have you could have said you had a magnetic marker that when you tap them with your putter, it kind of stuck on your putter? Because I think there's a rule covering that. Well, a lot a lot of team play. You played the little bit on the senior tour where there's matter of fact, are you still the only one that has won the Order of Merit on both the senior tour and the regular tour over there?

Woosnam, Ian: 23:16

That could be Yeah. Yeah, most probably. Um, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez: 23:21

Yeah. So what a few times.

Woosnam, Ian: 23:24

Yeah, it's Yeah. You know, I've been on that tour. Now. What? 15 years? Just come back from Austria. Actually, it was nice to get going again, played for eight months. Yeah. And walk for eight months shot what to over for over 67 The last 830 Sell was just getting back into it. Yeah, so that was nice.

Mike Gonzalez: 23:49

Do you have status on the senior tour over here? Are you able to play me one if you want?

Woosnam, Ian: 23:53

Yeah, I sort of like, as you know, had a bit of an argument all over the world, all the folk fame I couldn't seem to get into that. Couldn't understand that some players could get in and I couldn't get in but my record but eventually came over and actually did some fitness and I was determined to show these people that I deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. And I got a lot of invites, and a roll like seven and that's how it work and invites you have to play like six days in a row. And I managed to win in Houston and think that helped me to get in the Hall of Fame. So now once I'm in there, once you're in the Hall of Fame you you're in, you're exempt for life really pretty well. Holding your exempt for life. If you've got a score, you've got to be able to score a decent score anyway.

Mike Gonzalez: 24:47

Yeah, so you got the call to the hall in 2017. You went in with Davis Love III, Meg Mallon, Lorena Ochoa and the great Henry Longhurst.

Woosnam, Ian: 24:58

Absolutely in New York. It was As a I've never really been to New York and as we all took the family you know, we were there was fantastic. We had a great time when it was a fantastic event and, you know, doing a speech again was not a thing I liked doing and I've watched it a couple of times and actually had a friend from Wales who actually work for Welsh, Welsh television BBC Wales. And he sort of had a handheld camera and went everywhere we went and like personal personal guy and he did this video is you know, it's came I found that it's great with the children and everything and it was just a delight to be there. Like I said to you, we want you to speak for about seven minutes. So I work doc, my speech and any object when thank everybody in seven minutes, I managed to do all that. They're not like all the other guys went on for about an hour. We do that. Everybody's good. A bit cheesed off. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez: 25:58

Yeah.

Woosnam, Ian: 25:59

Davis Love was, you know, everybody was great. But Davis was really good as well. So, yeah, that's good. And

Devlin, Bruce: 26:05

then 10 years, 10 years before that. You received the Order of the British Empire that has to be pretty thrilling too

Woosnam, Ian: 26:14

Yeah. i managed to get an MBE first. And then and then I got the OBE and then you know, I've been twice and I was with the Queen did it the first time. And then the last time Prince Charles when King, King Charles now did it. Great experience taking your family. And just being in the palaces, you know, anybody gets an award laid out or honored Like that is just something special anyway.

Mike Gonzalez: 26:51

Yeah, yeah. Well, as we wind down, Bruce, as you know, we have three questions we'd like to always ask our guests. I don't know if Ian has done any research as to what we asked, but I'm gonna let you answer ask the first question.

Devlin, Bruce: 27:04

Okay, you're ready. Okay. All right. If, if you knew what you know, now, when you first started on the tour, what would you have done differently?

Woosnam, Ian: 27:22

I'd have to say nothing. Because I think I've been pretty lucky in my life that I've lived a really normal life. And I can go into a pub, I can do anything, and talk to anybody, basically. Wouldn't really change a thing really, if I had if I did anything. I wished I'd spent more time with my children and my family. And it's great having grandchildren now because I have more time to spend with them and watch them grow. But I think they would have been spending more time with my family.

Mike Gonzalez: 28:09

I think a lot of working fathers probably feel the same way. Yeah, that's

Woosnam, Ian: 28:13

the way it was on them days and bit different now. A little bit.

Mike Gonzalez: 28:17

Okay, so we're gonna give you one career Mulligan? Where do you take it?

Woosnam, Ian: 28:25

First te at Lytham, get rid of a driver.

Mike Gonzalez: 28:31

that was easy.

Woosnam, Ian: 28:33

I can do that one didn't didn't even I have to look that one up did I.

Mike Gonzalez: 28:36

Didn't have to swing either. It saves you two shots.

Woosnam, Ian: 28:39

Come on Bruce, what are you going to hit me with this last one?

Devlin, Bruce: 28:41

Yeah, your last one is it's a we get a lot of different answers. And it's a simple question. How would you like to be remembered?

Woosnam, Ian: 28:52

Again, just the way I am just for being sort of a, a guy who was a natural wasn't above anything else. I'm just being a natural person and treated everybody exactly the same. And, you know, in my life, you know, I might be a superstar in someone else's eyes, but I'm not really a superstar. I'm just a normal person like everybody else.

Devlin, Bruce: 29:16

Well, you have been a superstar today with us. Mr. Woosnam, I can tell you that, as I told you early in the show, Mike and I look forward to spending this time with you today and we thank you for your time and thank you for filling us in on all those great stories of your life and you are the same in wisdom that you were when you were 16 years old. I'm sure that

Woosnam, Ian: 29:39

yeah, just a bit more knowledgeable but I want to just say something to you Bruce, you keep busy and don't stop. I will give it I will give you them two shots off the reds. I'll get you out Mike as well. So I will have a good go.

Mike Gonzalez: 29:59

Yeah, fair enough. Well, we really appreciate you spending time with us being so generous with your time and we thank you for joining us on for the good of the game.

Woosnam, Ian: 30:09

No problem. Thanks very much for having me.

Mike Gonzalez: 30:12

Thank you for listening to another episode of for the good of the game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify if you like what you hear, please subscribe. Spread the word. Tell your friends until we tee it up again. For the good of the game, So long everybody.