Catriona Matthew - Part 2 (The 2009 Women's British Open and the Solheim Cup)

Music playing  00:00

Mike Gonzalez  00:10

Well let's go on Bruce to that next LPGA victory in 2004.

Devlin, Bruce  00:20

Wendy's Championship for Children at Tartan Fields in Ohio. A playoff with Hee Won Han.

Matthew, Catriona  00:28

That's right. Hee Won Han in a playoff. That's right. I do remember that one. Yeah, I think I'd add two or three playoffs over my career. But that was a Yeah, I think I think she I think I finished before her actually. And then she did she birdie or par the last and then we went to I can't honestly remember that. That was I won it on the first playoff hole or not. But I think a playoff so it was quite a well, is a fun way to win a tournament in the end. I mean, you've played really well. And you know, you've had a really good week, but you want to get that victory and to go off and do you know a sudden death playoff. But luckily being my first one I managed to prevail.

Mike Gonzalez  01:10

We've described it as nothing better than a coin flip typically. And when you when you go back and look at the stats, and Bruce will, Bruce will tell you, you know what we've found in looking at over the now 81 interviews we've done all with major winners and World Golf Hall of Fame members, almost half of those women and Bruce,

Devlin, Bruce  01:30

What do you think the winning percentage is of all all of you great players in playoffs?

Matthew, Catriona  01:38

I'd go maybe 50%.

Devlin, Bruce  01:40

No it's not it's not even that it's about 43%. It's astounding really when you think of the greatest players and they've got a loss record combined loss record.

Matthew, Catriona  01:52

Well just shows I mean that you see that they're In match play events, don't you? It's never normally, you know, it's not like tennis where normally you could go just about pick who's going to be in the final and get it right most times but in golf, it just shows there's just that smaller gulf between all the different players.

Mike Gonzalez  02:10

Yeah. And you know, I think if I were to go back and do the analysis and adjust for multi like more than two in the playoff, three, four people playoff. I think if we did all that math, it probably works out to about a 50/50 proposition. 

Matthew, Catriona  02:26

Right. 

Mike Gonzalez  02:27

There's so much going on. Before that in terms of were you playing well getting into the playoff? 

Devlin, Bruce  02:34

Did you bogey the last?

Matthew, Catriona  02:35

Absolutely. Yeah, it's whether you got Yeah, i Exactly. Or how long before the the end group you've finished? And what have you been doing? You've been kind of fiddling about and there's a lot of like you say, there's a lot of things that go into a playoff.

Mike Gonzalez  02:52

Well, let's go on to December of 2006. Because you had a pretty important life event, then. You welcomed your first daughter.

Matthew, Catriona  03:01

Yes, gosh how could I have to think about that. Yes. Katie was born 18th of December. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, that

Mike Gonzalez  03:07

How do you manage all that. Because we've you know, we've, of course, we've talked about this kind of life event with a lot of our lady pros and how they managed around all that. Because most of the listeners don't realize that life goes on outside of the ropes.

Matthew, Catriona  03:24

Yeah, it's a difficult one. And it's a tricky decision, you know, as a, as a young pro, you know, we probably waited a wee bit longer till we started a family till I was a bit more, you know, established on tour. And, but I think especially with Katie, the first one you you just, you know, he could be six months off and when you come back, you just wonder, are you ever going to be be the same player? Will I will it feel any different when I come back? Well, I have that same competitive urge to want to play. So it's all it's quite nerve wracking apart from the whole fact about your, you know, your having your first child and everything that that encompasses. So, there's a there's definitely a lot going on. But you know, looking back now I would see for myself personally, having children probably definitely helped my game. Even though probably nervous I was before I'd had Katie and wandering you know, as I said, for there, I built to continue, but I think it it helped me focus more in a way on my golf and my practice, I practice much better because you had to be manage my time better, I think. Yeah. Yeah, it was far more quality over quantity. So I had to be much more structured and probably far better practice routine than I had before. If and you just kind of felt you had all day and it was all just you and it was you and your golf game. There was there was more to think about.

Mike Gonzalez  04:47

Yeah, well, it didn't take long to answer the question of what would happened to my game post children. So Katie's born end of 2006 in And then you kind of toggle over to the Scandinavian TPC hosted by Annika up in Sweden, I guess and won a tournament by three over Sophie Gustafson and Laura Diaz.

Matthew, Catriona  05:11

Yeah, that was that Barcia back actually, in Sweden, the verge went on to play Solheim Cup. But yeah, that was a that was a really nice spectrum. My brother had come out and he was looking after Katie. And, you know, Graham was Caddying for me and I remember we stayed in a little condo just right on the Golf Course. And it was it was a it was a great week and I obviously played well that we can be thing so favorite, he was kind of at the height of her powers and being Swedish so maybe not overly popular with the fans, but a nice wind for me.

Mike Gonzalez  05:43

They had more than one Solheim Cup there.

Matthew, Catriona  05:47

They've had one at Barseback and then one at Halmstead.

Mike Gonzalez  05:50

Right. Okay. All right, gotcha. So we'll toddle on then to 2009 the HSBC LPGA Brazil Cup, and that was by five over Christie McPherson. That had to be a nice walk up 18 because you probably had scoreboards then.

Matthew, Catriona  06:06

Definitely had scoreboards then, I think it was actually five months pregnant. They're playing that one. And I do remember I just did a local caddy that week, Graham had stayed back in Florida with Katie. And, you know, I remember the last hole, I can picture it still, it was a quite a tough par four water, both sides. And then you had to play over water The next tool. So I think as you say, I had maybe a four or five shot lead. So we're walking onto the tee and the caddy just hands me my driver and I said, oh, goodness no. I'm just going to play this as a three-shotter, so I nudge a five iron down, wedge it down and then wedge it onto the green. I thought, I'm not going to do anything really stupid here. I said if I've got these shots I may as well take them.

Mike Gonzalez  06:50

We could think of some other players that should have taken that advice.

Devlin, Bruce  06:53

Isn't that the truth?

Matthew, Catriona  06:55

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it does seem crazy. Because obviously if you're leading the tournament, you're playing well. Yes. But it was just a horrible tee shot. And that was the trouble was hitting it in the water left or right. Yep, just kind of nudge it down, nudge it along and you want one? That's all that matters.

Mike Gonzalez  07:13

I want to talk about the 2009  Evian Masters because you were involved in a I guess a tragic event. Just days before you were supposed to go to listen or play the Women's British Open.

Matthew, Catriona  07:30

Yeah, that was just nine weeks after I had my my second child Sophie. And we decided we go to Evian as a kind of warm up for the British to so to speak. And, you know, I was hoping you know, if I played well, in those events, you know, I think Allison Nicholas was Solheim Captain that year, and I thought that might just get back on our radar after coming back from having Sophie and not having played so we went to Evian. And I think, you know, Sofia had colic for the first eight weeks of her life. She hadn't slept, and she had stayed home with my mom and dad. So I was probably trying to sleep. And I remember hearing what sounded like rain on the roof of our little hotel that was kind of built into the hillside. So you had a balcony, but you came in from around back on a ground level. So it sounded like rain so my husband and opened the door and then not rain, it's flames. There's flames everywhere. So we kind of paniced and ran out the place and no fire alarm or anything. So we're running around shouting fire, fire, it's probably 10L30, 11 at night on the Wednesday night. Typically, of course with the first round starting the next day. And then I think we had Amy Yang and her dad were in the room next door to us. And then by the time they heard us shouting, they couldn't get out their door. So he throws the mattress out their balcony and then throws the clubs and then Amy jumps so luckily everyone got out and everyone was fine but the hotel was destroyed. But you know, again, my husband was burned running out on some of the embers and couldn't caddy that week so it was quite a stressful start to the week.

Mike Gonzalez  09:13

Yeah, I'll say. You come out of that experience at the Evian Masters with Graham with and his hot foot coming through the embers and you go on to Royal Lytham and St. Annes for the 2009 Ricoh Women's British Open. And tell us a little bit about what your game was like, 

Matthew, Catriona  09:33

I won, that's all that matters, right?

Mike Gonzalez  09:34

what your head was like, coming into that week.

Matthew, Catriona  09:38

Yeah, I mean, coming into that week, obviously I hadn't played really I'd only played at Evian and the week before probably in five months. So yeah, I mean, I didn't really I had been practicing maybe for a couple of weeks, but really didn't know what to expect. You know, as I said earlier, I was just hoping you know, I could probably top 20 Maybe get my my kind of name in the in the frame for perhaps a pick for the Solheim Cup and you know I remember going out and having a decent enough first round I think I probably went into that with the least expectations obviously. So I didn't put probably as much pressure on myself but obviously being British that's the major you want to win so you know I had a decent enough first round and then the second round I kind of caught fire on the back nine and I think on 11, 12 went eagle, eagle and had an amazing back nine and vaulted myself into the lead even then even you know after the lead 36 holes is still a long way to go as you know, in a golf tournament. But you know, after the third round, I'm still in the lead. And I thought that was actually when I first started getting nervous I thought oh, I've really actually got a chance of winning this one so you know, the Sunday come out and I get a pretty edgy front nine and I remember walking off the 10th tee and looking up at the scoreboard and I was tied by that point with I think Ai Miyazato and perhaps Karrie Webb actually she was up there that week as well. And I thought right, I've played this back nine well every you know every day so come on let's let's just go and go and do it and as wherever you went, I remember holing a monster putt on 14 for birdie. And I think when you win you always get that little bit of luck, that's just the kind of little bit you get to distinguish you from the next ones. And I remember standing on 18 tee I think I had a three shot lead. And I think if anyone who's played Lytham, you stand on that tee and you can just see, I could see gorse right I could see bunkers everywhere down the fairway and Graham gives me a three-wood says, all I said was just need to get on the fairway and then I've won. So I kind of nudgee a three-wood down and got the fairway and it was a great walk up because you know with a three shot lead, I knew I'd won it. So I remember the Scottish girls team were there. They were playing the next week, I think at Southport, so they were there watching their faces painted with the saltire and I remember knocking, I think, a six iron onto the green and then two putts. So and I think having you know my husband daddying as well made it all the more special. So you know, obviously had family and friends down watching. So it was kind of the one of these moments that I don't think it really sinks in till probably a few days later, didn't really sin in, the enormity of what I'd done. I remember that night sitting, you know, Sophie was still getting up in the middle of the night. And you know, my mom had been doing those feeds so I said. Oh, well, I'll get up tonight. So I remember sitting at three in the morning, we had the trophy on the kitchen table and my mum and me sitting having a cup of tea. A great wild celebration we had that night.

Mike Gonzalez  12:48

Yeah. What a great memory though. Yeah.

Devlin, Bruce  12:53

First first Scottish woman to win the Ladies British Open as well.

Matthew, Catriona  12:59

Yeah, it's always special when you're first to do something. Absolutely.

Mike Gonzalez  13:03

First one to win a major as a matter of fact, right?

Matthew, Catriona  13:07

Yeah. Yeah. Which is nice.

Mike Gonzalez  13:11

You added your name to some great, great names that have won the championship on the men's and the women's side. I mean, just for our listeners, I'm going to take you through the names starting almost 100 years ago, and they've got a lot of history there with this fella, Bobby Jones, maybe a name people have heard before. Then you go to Bobby Locke. And then a guy that Bruce knows quite well, Peter Thompson. The next three guys, we talked to each of them about their wins at Lytham and I can remember specifically about Tony Jacklin in 1969 talking about he hit the best tee shot of the week on 18th. Bob Charles in 1963 and then 1969 Jacklin and Gary Player in 1974 Then Seve, 

Matthew, Catriona  14:03

Seve from the carpark.

Mike Gonzalez  14:05

 Yeah, Tom Leyman and David Duval. And then Ernie Els and then on the ladies side, I guess in chronological order. Sherri Steinhauer before it was a major, and then Annika, and then Sherri Steinhauer after it was a major, and then our guest today, Catriona, Matthew, and then Georgia Hall who put up a pretty good fight and the lady's us opened, didn't she? Yeah,

Matthew, Catriona  14:29

yeah. Yeah, she did. She's a good player, Georgia. That was she had a great win there at Lytham as well. Yeah, I remember listening to that. We were driving back up home and remember listening to the last few holes?

Mike Gonzalez  14:40

Yeah. Some some some great names. And I guess first we got to ask you the you get that major under your belt? What changed? Because you might have played  somewhere the next week?

Matthew, Catriona  14:54

No, I didn't actually no. I didn't have anything on the schedule the next week. I remember. I remember being at home.

Mike Gonzalez  14:59

I mean, so often you guys, and Bruce, you know this, you win a tournament. And then you gotta pack up in the car generally and drive to the next tournament, then you don't have a lot of time to really relish what you just did do.

Devlin, Bruce  15:12

No, that's true, that's absolutely true.

Matthew, Catriona  15:14

I think that sometimes the bad thing with golfers because you don't have time to celebrate your victories and kind of savor them in a way. I think that really shows the really top class, the top golfers who can win back to back weeks. I think that takes a lot because a win takes a lot out of you. You know, to be able to go and do it the next week is quite a feat.

Devlin, Bruce  15:35

You got a nice little check that week, too, didn't you? Do you remember that?

Matthew, Catriona  15:41

I'm sure did. I must say I can't remember quite what I got, but I'm sure it was nice.

Devlin, Bruce  15:46

It started with a three and then another three, and then a five, and then three zeros.

Matthew, Catriona  15:55

Okay. That's nice.

Devlin, Bruce  15:58

$335,000 first prize. Yeah, very nice. Very nice.

Mike Gonzalez  16:02

Did life change for you after that?

Matthew, Catriona  16:08

I wouldn't  really say it did to be honest. No, no, I mean, for me, personally, yes, great. one,  a major. You know, it's the British. You know, it really is just, you know, a validation of everything of all the hard work you've done. And you know, that it was the right thing to do to turn pro. And I think it's more at the time, it's just yes, I've won. That's great. And then as you say, maybe I didn't play the next week, but you're then starting to prepare. You know, I'd got in the Solheim Cup with winning and you're preparing to go on to other things. So it's not until perhaps later in your career that you actually look back and and perhaps enjoy these victories more than when they happened at the time, I think.

Mike Gonzalez  16:52

Well, I'm sure a real highlight for your career. Before we move on from the Open Championship at Royal Lytham,

Devlin, Bruce  17:00

We've still got one more win there too.

Mike Gonzalez  17:02

Well Bruce, before that. There's a little story I think she should probably hear that she's not heard.  It happened at the 1974 Open Championship at Royal Lytham that Gary Player won. And the story involves two people who you know, one is on screen there, Bruce Devlin. And the other one is a guy named Lee Trevino.

Devlin, Bruce  17:28

So I'm surprised you haven't even heard the story?

Matthew, Catriona  17:32

Well, you don't know. I might have if you come out with it. You never know.

Devlin, Bruce  17:36

Trevino tells the story everywhere. So we walk on the tee Sunday morning, both of us playing not so good. 

Mike Gonzalez  17:42

Practice tee. 

Devlin, Bruce  17:43

Yeah, practice, say Sunday morning, paired together Sunday and I said dammit Lee. I can't drive it in a 40 acre field. He said well hit my driver, try my driver. I said, Yeah, that'll work. You know, first of all, you're six inches shorter than me. You stand about four inches further away from the ball than I do. And you think I can use your driver and he said, Just take a swing with it. So I took a swing and it went straight. He said Well swing, have another hit. The second one went straight. I thought what's the deal here, but so I hit a third one straight. He said, Well, that makes the situation really easy. We'll use the same driver today. I said Lee, how are we going to do that? We're gonna have an R&A guy with us. He said, get off the First Tee, then on the second tee, if you've got the honor, take my driver. And then once you hit it, back up, and I'll hand you your driver and then hit mine. So we did that all the way around the Golf Course. Nobody said anything, the R&A guy didn't notice it. And then about I guess it was about 10 or 12 years later Trevino sitting with the Secretary of the R&A at a dinner. And he says to him, I need to ask you a question. Should Bruce Devlin and I give back the money we won in 1973. You know, we both won 103 pounds What are you talking about Lee? He said, Well, we both used the same driver on the last round of the tournament. And he said yeah, sure. You did. Talk about something else. So nobody would believe him. Anyhow, that's the Lytham story.

Mike Gonzalez  19:35

Can you even fatham that happening today. 

Matthew, Catriona  19:37

That could never happen. No, no. It'd be someone capture that with their phone. Yeah. posted on social media.

Mike Gonzalez  19:44

Yeah, yeah. But anyway, so you're winning the 2009 Women's British Open, as you mentioned comes just several weeks after the arrival of daughter Sophie. Just 11 days after that fire in France and mere weeks after Tom Watson almost did the unthinkable, which was win the British Open at Turnberry at age 59. Talk about would have, could have should have, I guess it wasn't meant to be but that's probably his one Mulligan he wouldn't mind having.

Matthew, Catriona  20:17

Yeah, I remember watching it, we're all sitting around watching that and I think he just hit the perfect shot didn't he, on the last. He hit it too good. Maybe just a little bit of adrenaline. And then you just knew didn't you. You just knew once he missed that putt, he just wasn't going to win the playoff. Yeah, that would have been quite the story.

Mike Gonzalez  20:39

It sure would have. Well let's go on Bruce to the 2011 Aberdeen Ladies Scottish open.

Devlin, Bruce  20:47

Won there by four shots there over Kim and Nordquist.

Mike Gonzalez  20:52

No, this one was by 10 

Devlin, Bruce  20:55

Oh, was it?

Matthew, Catriona  20:57

Archerfield I played amazingly well that week. Yeah, so that's probably some of the best golf I've ever played actually.

Mike Gonzalez  21:03

Really was. Dirleton or Fidra? Which of course did you play?

Matthew, Catriona  21:07

We played on the Fidra Yeah, yeah, but that I think that was probably some of my best ball striking. I remember just every hole I had a birdie putt on. I could have been even lower than I was and just kind of blew the field away. But it was just one of those weeks where you know, you just couldn't do anything wrong and you always just you wonder why you couldn't have done that every week.

Mike Gonzalez  21:30

Was there one round where you just went stupid low?

Matthew, Catriona  21:33

I don't think there was one round where I went stupid low. I just was kind of quite low on all of them. But yeah, it was just I just remember I was just striking the ball so well that week.

Mike Gonzalez  21:43

And how long does that last? Typically

Matthew, Catriona  21:47

Lasted a week

Mike Gonzalez  21:52

That elusive zone is hard to stay in sometimes isn't it?ometimes

Matthew, Catriona  21:56

Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez  21:57

You wonder where it goes? Well, Bruce, then you go the Lorena Ochoa Invitational.

Devlin, Bruce  22:02

Right, yeah, that's where you won by four over Kim and Nordquist.

Matthew, Catriona  22:05

That's right. Yeah. That was that was where I had Chuck caddying for me again, he came down and so we got a, after him getting me ththrough Q school, we got a victory on the LPGA with him caddying. So yeah, that great fun. But I had a huge lead in that one. I remember going into the last day. And I think I was leading by maybe seven or eight at the turn and in a way that's quite difficult having such a big lead. You know, then the others kind of made a little push and I had a bogey and then you kind of go I can't blow a lead this big but yeah, so that was that was a nice victory. That was the biggest trophy, I think in history. Is that right? It's a massive trophy.

Mike Gonzalez  22:47

How did you enjoy Guadalajara?

Matthew, Catriona  22:50

Yeah, I liked Guadalajara actually. It was nice. Yeah, yeah, obviously. Lorena's hometown so yeah, Guadalajara Country Club was a nice Golf Course. We played a played a few events down there over the years when she was on tour.

Mike Gonzalez  23:06

Yeah, I had an opprotunity to travel down there a lot on business over the years but never really knew what the golf scene was down there.

Matthew, Catriona  23:13

No, there's some nice Golf Courses, quite kind of old style. I think. You know, Guadalajara Country Club's kind of, I don't know, like an old Golf Course you know, kind of tree lined and nice golf courses.

Mike Gonzalez  23:25

Yeah. So we come back closer to home. And in 2012 you pick up a win at the Ladies Irish Open at Killeen Castle by one over Suzann Pettersen.

Matthew, Catriona  23:38

Yeah, that was another thing that was just before the Solheim Cup there. They were having the Irish Open there before we played this Solheim Cup, at Kileen Castle so it always gives you kind of good memories when you've won and of course, you've got to go and play a big event like that on so and then again, obviously beating Suzanne who is at the height of her powers and it's always nice to beat the best.

Mike Gonzalez  24:02

Yeah. Bruce, the next year, she had a close call in the LPGA Championship.

Devlin, Bruce  24:11

Yeah, Inbee Park. You contributed to that minus playoff, Tell us what happened.

Matthew, Catriona  24:25

We had to go to play I think 35 or 36 holes on the Sunday because of bad weather. So I was actually quite a bit, I was like quite a bit before Inbee just and then they kept the same pairing. So I'd had a good third round, and then made a good run at again, and in the second round, the last round. And so I finished probably a good hour, an hour and a half before her. 

Devlin, Bruce  24:52

Were you actually leading them when you finished? You were in front.

Matthew, Catriona  24:55

Yeah, I was. I think score wise I was leading and I think it some point she maybe tied me, I don't think she ever got past me but she tied me and then I remember watching and she made a really good putt on 18th in regulation to get into the playoff and then I think that was probably one shot and maybe I'd take back actually on the first playoff hole. I'd had a good drive it was kind of a straight away par four there back up the hill towards the clubhouse, tree lined, so I hit a good drive onto the fairway and the green, it was a two-tier green and really the pin was on the bottom right. I can still picture and the if you got to, you know above the hall, it was super fast coming back down. So I hit this really nice seven iron. Really nice seven iron and it was literally if it had been two millimeters less would have come back down the slope, a kick in Bbrdie and it just stuck at the top. And then she went on to beat me. I think we played down 10 And then back up 18. And I think she birdied and I didn't, so she won it. But yeah, it was one of these ones. I was kind of so far back going into the Sunday with the two rounds that you never really thought and then to suddenly get in the playoff. But yeah, one of these ones that got away.

Mike Gonzalez  26:16

You were seven back. And I don't know if it was seven back starting the Sunday or starting the final round, but

Matthew, Catriona  26:24

I think it was starting the Sunday, so I had 36 holes.

Mike Gonzalez  26:28

So as you said, Inbee Park birdies the third playoff hole. And that was the first of her winning that event three straight years.

Matthew, Catriona  26:39

Hard to do. Wow. Yeah, that is hard to do. Yes. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez  26:43

Yeah. So could have very easily been a couple of majors.

Matthew, Catriona  26:50

Well, it could couldn't it? But every player could say that couldn't they? I'm sure Inbee missed numerous opportunities to get the win in regulation. So I think every player could always you can always look at one shot, two shots where you did something silly or or should have, should have, could have.

Mike Gonzalez  27:07

Well, we've got one more individual win to talk about Bruce.

Devlin, Bruce  27:10

That's right. The Aberdeen Asset Management Ladies Scottish Open winning by two over Hannah Burke.

Matthew, Catriona  27:19

Yeah, back at Archerfield, which is just five minutes down the road from me. So as I said, it is it's there actually two good wins, winning those because it is tough to win at home and to be right at home, you know, in your backyard. So then it's always special to win your own Open. So yeah, they were two great wins I had there.

Mike Gonzalez  27:41

Yeah. I want to summarize the majors briefly, because you had a couple other really good finishes in the majors. At what point were you thinking about sort of slowing you're slowing your yearly schedule down and maybe not traveling as much?

Matthew, Catriona  28:06

Probably after the Solheim Cup in Des Moines. So that in 2017? Yeah, must have been 2017 started playing a bit less. The kids were at school. Now my husband was staying at home, I wasn't enjoying it as much, you know, traveling on my own and probably not enjoying it as much because I wasn't playing as well, which kind of seems to correlate a little bit. You know what, I was just missing being at home and missing out and things. So I think that was kind of when I playing in that I knew and I remember playing Stacy Lewis in the singles on the last day. And I think I was three down at the turn. I think I said to my caddy. Well, this is going to be my last singles and Solheim, so let's win it. And I went on to manage to just beat her. So yeah, I think probably then that was the time I started to not play quite as much. Yeah. And then as you start playing less, you then get even worse if you're more infrequent. So then you start playing less and less.

Mike Gonzalez  29:09

Well, there's a lot of Solheim Cup experiences that we want to talk about, but just spinning through the majors quickly. The Dinah Shore, you had a chance there probably in 2007 finishing second Morgan Pressel, the year she won. We talked about what happened at Locust Hill, in the 2013 LPGA Championship. In the U.S. Open, you know, had a good finish, top 10, actually top five with a T-4 at Pine Needles the year Karrie Webb won there and in 2001. And then, you know, another top five British Open finish which was at Sunningdale and Se Ri Pak won there and in 2001 ,where you finished tied for third.

Matthew, Catriona  29:53

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I remember having a chance there at Sunningdale. And then I kind of got caught in some bad weather at the end of the day. Third round. I was right up there tied with her. And then just the rain came and I kind of frittered a couple of shots away over the last four holes and kind of dropped me back a little bit. But yeah, I kind of had a few chances, obviously, The Dinah Shore that Morgan won, you know, I remember, that was three putting 18 to miss out in a playoff by one, so that one hurt. But yeah, yeah, I had some close calls.

Mike Gonzalez  30:24

Well, you talked about catching the draw in terms of weather. We've talked about that a lot on the show. Typically, we talk about it as it relates to play over on your side of the pond, in the British Open in particular. But ,would would you say, with your experience that catching the draw and getting lucky with the weather on one side or the other? Is it sort of just a myth that it happens more over in the UK? Or would you say, you know, it happens equally as much in the U.S. with rain and tornadoes and all kinds of crazy stuff?

Matthew, Catriona  30:56

No, I would say definitely happens more over in the UK, because I think in the U.S., that's if there's rain or that it's usually lightning, so it's usually stops play. So yeah, I think over here, and especially with the one tee starts that they tend to have, there can be a huge variation in the weather from like a 6:30 tee off time to 3:30 time. Probably there in Hawaii, Hawaii is always the kind of vagaries of the wind. So you can have the

Mike Gonzalez  31:26

Ha it tended to average out for you your career or have you been on the wrong side of that when you were playing well?

Matthew, Catriona  31:34

I think it averages out. Yeah, maybe you maybe don't think that at the time, but I think it probably does average out over the years.

Mike Gonzalez  31:43

Well, let's talk a little bit about the Solheim Cup. Because what a record I mean, as a player nine times, as a captain, a couple of times. Quite a record, Bruce just looking at her play across those nine performances.

Devlin, Bruce  31:58

Pretty good, yeah the won/loss record is 18, 11 and eight, in the singles, pretty strong in the singles, 6, 2 and one. And then in the foursomes eight, five and four, and the four balls were probably one that was the least impressive was four, four and three. So 22 total points you scored in those years. So you know two and a half points each time you played on average. That's pretty good.

Matthew, Catriona  32:32

Yeah, yeah, it'd been, that'd be good. I'd say I always found four ball the hardest format. I love foursomes, just loved the whole thing of foursomes and find that in a way easier, I think probably because I would call myself not the most aggressive golfer. So I think that's perhaps where I struggled a little bit with four-ball. I think I tried to change my game and go for things more than I normally would have done. So I always preferred foursomes too for, to be fair.

Mike Gonzalez  33:07

Yeah. Well, you missed out on the very early history of the Solheim Cup. And course Bruce and I have had a chance to talk to Kathy Whitworth who Captained that first U.S. side and a lot of the players including Laura and Annika and others. But you began your Solheim career at Jack's place in Muirfield Village, with Pia Nilsson as your coach and your captain and Judy Rankin on the U.S. side.

Matthew, Catriona  33:37

Yep, I remember that. I remember playing with Annika was my partner that time. So I remember we were first out first morning in the foursome. So I think I had the honor of hitting the first tee shot so but I could pick my partner's as well in foursomes. she's not too shabby a partner to have. How nervous were you standing on that first tee? Yeah, I mean, I think that without a doubt it's the most nervous you are and you're playing golf because I think it' the fact that you're representing your country, your continent that I think it's normally as a golfer without being individual, it's only yourself, you can let down if you hit bad shots, but in that it's your it's your teammates and your peers and you don't that I think that's in a way what gives it the most pressure that you're not wanting to let down any of them and, and you're wanting to play well. I mean, not to show off, but you're wanting to play well in front of them.

Mike Gonzalez  34:35

True. Well, your second one, which came in 2003. That was a win at and we talked about this venue in Sweden at Barseback, with Catrin Nilsmark and Patty Sheehan as the captains and you earn the winning point in that one.

Matthew, Catriona  34:53

Yeah, that's right. I remember in the foursome and fourball I played  three of the matches with Janice Moodie who was one of my old-time teammates back from the Scottish amateur days. So that was great fun. And in the singles, I played against Rosie Jones, and you could just tell from the leaderboards that it was going to come down to, I think Anika was behind me. So it was going to be one of our groups. And again, being in Sweden, I think they were all wanting Annika to get the winning point. But, you know, you could kind of tell like, sorry, I got to the 17th and all the captains and the team and the caddies and everyone comes rushing down. So you kind of know, it's coming down to my points. And I remember I had two really nice shots onto the green. And the one thing I was I suppose Rosie ended up because she had missed the green. She ended up conceding the hole rather than me having a putt to hole and I remember Sophie Gustafson running onto the green and nearly knocking me over. But that was probably the first Solheim Cup. Actually. I played in the crowds, suddenly. They just felt really huge. That was that week that was going to start of the real kind of take off of the Solheim Cup.

Mike Gonzalez  36:03

So speaking of that, did you see a lot of change from that first one in 1998 to obviously the most recent one you're involved in would have been as Captain on 2021?

Matthew, Catriona  36:13

Yeah, I think there's been a huge change. I mean, I think there's, there's been a huge change in women's sports in general, and golf's a part of that. But I think over the years you've just seen, it really is a standalone sports event. Now, it's not just oh, this is the women's version of the Ryder Cup. Now it's an event that even non golfers you know, want to come like the Ryder Cup they want to come and and see and watch. So it really has in the last 20 years, it's exploded. Really? Yeah. Just I suppose like the Ryder Cup did over the years when, you know, once they got the Europeans in and it suddenly took off. And I think with both sides winning it, it needs to go backwards and forwards and be competitive to get that people watching.

Mike Gonzalez  36:57

Agreed. Yeah. So in terms of venues, if you just set outcome aside, you know, win or loss, it doesn't matter. What was your favorite venue? On your side of the pond? What was your favorite us venue for that event?

Matthew, Catriona  37:10

I think over in the US I think I think we lost this one. But I think Crooked Stick was one of my favorite venues in the US. Yep. And over here. Hard to beat that one at Barseback actually. First win, and I've won, I've won a golf event at that Golf Course. So that was a tough one.

Mike Gonzalez  37:31

Yeah, a lot of great memories there. Right. Yeah. So obviously, having an opportunity to compete as a player nine times was special enough. But how special was it when you get the call and say, Hey, we want you to captain the 2019 team?

Matthew, Catriona  37:51

Yeah, I think that was that was a huge honor. And I think to to have the opportunity to do it in Scotland, because obviously being European you don't, it's quite unusual to actually get it to do it in your home country as well. So that was extra special. And then you know, just the whole event and then the way it finished coming down to the last putt on the last green you honestly if you can descripted that I think if like the if the Hollywood writers had written that you wouldn't have believed them. You'd have said that's ridiculous. So that was that? Yeah, that probably, you know even surpasses some of the ones you played in to be honest,

Mike Gonzalez  38:28

You went up against Juli Inkster pretty tough competitors as your as your opposing captain in that one. And then the next one. 

Matthew, Catriona  38:35

Yeah, very tough. 

Mike Gonzalez  38:36

Next one another win in Ohio at Inverness golf club with Pat Hurst leading the USA. So Win Win perfect record as a captain.

Matthew, Catriona  38:47

Yeah. So that was a good time to stop it. Yeah. I mean, I think Inverness was was special in different ways. That was during COVID. So we had no, no European fans, basically. There was literally maybe 50, at the very most, of European fans. So that was in a way that made that one very special just because of the circumstances of it. And then, you know, as the away team, you don't, you don't often get that chance to win away from home.

Mike Gonzalez  39:13

Yeah, yeah. So I'm sure you're getting calls from the current captain for this year's team wanting to know what the secret sauce was.

Matthew, Catriona  39:20

No, I think Susanne will do a good job. Yeah, yeah, she was vice captain for me. So and obviously she's got a fantastic record and career so looking for good things there.

Mike Gonzalez  39:33

Yeah. So before we wrap up, but maybe just catch our listeners up with what life looks like now for Catriona Matthews. What are you involved in outside of golf? What's your golf ituation look like these? 

Matthew, Catriona  39:49

For me now, you know, I'm not playing a huge amount. You know, I'll play maybe five events this year. I'm gonna play actually the Women's British Open next week. It will He's kind of as a preparation for this Senior US Open, which is third week in August over in Portland, Oregon. 

Mike Gonzalez  40:08

I'll see you there. 

Matthew, Catriona  40:09

Yeah, and then I'm playing, you know, an LET event Sophie, my youngest daughter is going to come and caddie so, you know, just some kind of fun things go and play in the odd events and, you know, try a bit a commentary and, you know, a few corporate things and, and then make it you know, the kids are 14 and 16. So it's kind of important time at schooling for them. So, you know, it's nice being home more and after traveling so much, you know, kind of just enjoying being at home, to be honest, it's amazing how you can fill your time.

Mike Gonzalez  40:40

So before we finish with our three traditional questions, I'll ask you, I'm going to put you on the spot. I'm gonna ask you a couple of trivia questions. One is hard. One is,

Matthew, Catriona  40:51

I failed miserably earlier.

Mike Gonzalez  40:54

And the other one, I think you'll get the other one, you

Matthew, Catriona  40:56

know, right. It'd be hard to say that.

Mike Gonzalez  41:00

You want the hard one first or the easy one first?

Matthew, Catriona  41:04

Well, you just go and I'll tell you which one's hard and which one's easy.

Mike Gonzalez  41:08

Oh, the first question is,

Matthew, Catriona  41:11

this is obviously the hard question.

Mike Gonzalez  41:13

The first question would be Could you name and I don't expect this. I don't expect anybody to be able to do this. Can you name the 20 venues that have hosted the Women's British Open

Matthew, Catriona  41:26

No, no, I'm sure I couldn't

Mike Gonzalez  41:29

Correct answer. 

Devlin, Bruce  41:30

Correct answer.

Mike Gonzalez  41:31

I can't either. I bet you could name though the 14 venues that have hosted in history, the Men's Open Championship. So I'll give you a hint. Okay. I'll give you a hint. 77 in Scotland, six in England, one in Northern Ireland.

Matthew, Catriona  41:46

Okay. Prestwick, Turnberry

Mike Gonzalez  41:51

Cover Ayrshire first, there's the three in Ayrshire right? Yep.

Matthew, Catriona  41:55

St. Andrews. 

Mike Gonzalez  41:57

There you go? 

Matthew, Catriona  41:59

Muirfield? There's only six in Scotland.

Mike Gonzalez  42:04

There's seven in Scotland. you named five of them. 

Matthew, Catriona  42:07

Carnoustie?

Mike Gonzalez  42:07

Carnoustie

Matthew, Catriona  42:09

Lytham, Birkdale Hoylake.

Mike Gonzalez  42:11

Well, let's stay in Scotland. There's one more in Scotland. Was there one more in Scotland?  Early, early, early

Devlin, Bruce  42:18

Gonna be around for a while.

Mike Gonzalez  42:20

It's close to you. 

Matthew, Catriona  42:22

Musselborough Old Links

Mike Gonzalez  42:23

Ding ding ding ding ding now you're down.

Matthew, Catriona  42:27

Lytham, Birkdale Hoylake, St. George's.

Mike Gonzalez  42:33

And there's two more by George's. Old Old, old old.

Matthew, Catriona  42:37

I don't know if I'll get them. Deal?

Mike Gonzalez  42:42

Winner, winner chicken dinner. We're going to talk to Karen Stupples from there next week. 

Matthew, Catriona  42:48

Princes 

Mike Gonzalez  42:49

Princes, that's right. Gene Sarazen won at Princes.

Matthew, Catriona  42:53

Northern Ireland is County.

Mike Gonzalez  42:56

No. Just north of County Down, Royal Port...

Matthew, Catriona  43:00

Portrush

Mike Gonzalez  43:02

 Yeah, right. All right. We got 'em. We got three easy ones for you. And I'm going to let Bruce go first.

Devlin, Bruce  43:12

Okay. So you don't have to look back quite as far as some of the guests that we've had before Catriona, but,  if you knew when you first started playing as a professional, what you know now, What would you do differently?

Matthew, Catriona  43:37

What would I do differently? I'd work a lot more on my strength work, getting stronger. And I would work a lot more on my short game.

Devlin, Bruce  43:51

Okay, good answer.

Mike Gonzalez  43:55

I think I know the answer to the next question. One career Mulligan. Where do you take it?

Matthew, Catriona  44:03

Well, it's either the Rochester that seven iron or my three putt at the Dinah.

Devlin, Bruce  44:10

That's two extra.

Mike Gonzalez  44:14

We'll give you an extra one. Okay, Bruce,

Matthew, Catriona  44:16

Probably the one at Rochester because that would have been to win. The other one was to get in the playoff?

Mike Gonzalez  44:21

Fair enough.

Devlin, Bruce  44:22

So our last question is a simple one. Okay, how would you like to be remembered?

Matthew, Catriona  44:29

That I think that's probably the hardest one. Oh, I don't know, just a nice person who happened to be good at golf.

Devlin, Bruce  44:41

Beautiful. You know, one thing that we have to say to that is that we have had a great time having you today, but we looked forward to this, thank you for all your time. And it's been fun.

Matthew, Catriona  44:59

Yeah, thanks very much, I enjoyed it. It was good fun.

Mike Gonzalez  45:02

Thanks for joining us Catriona. And it's a real privilege for us to be able to add your storiy to all the golf greats that we hope will be archived in perpetuity for younger generations of golfers to listen to.

Matthew, Catriona  45:14

I look forward to listening to more of them.

Mike Gonzalez  45:17

Good, wonderful having you. And hopefully we'll see you at the Senior Women's Open out in Portland in August.

Matthew, Catriona  45:24

Yeah, I'll be there. So if you're there, I will see you. All right. Perfect. Okay, thank you very much.

Mike Gonzalez  45:30

Thank you for listening to another episode of FORE the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word and tell your friends. Until we tee it up again. FORE the Good of the Game, so long, everybody.

Music playing  45:51